new biner

Ooo a free biner! What kind is it? I'll take it!

:D:D its a CASSIN, Italian made, UIAA rated, non locking quickdraw biner, 20kn along the spine, 6KN side load, 6 kn with open gate.

email me your addy, i'll give the Biner a diamond tripoli polish and mail it to ya

Well, thank you very much for the offer SRTTech, but seeing as how I already have plenty of non locking accessory biners there's no need for you to go out of your way mailing another to me. I'll leave your offer open for the next taker.

Soooo....free biner, who wants a free biner?

Hey SRT-Tech, I’ll give ya a little inside info that agrees with your dropped biner concept, but please keep it, You know, Just between us. . .

Recently overheard at a TCI training seminar:
”If you drop a carabiner onto a hard surface from a height of 3 or more feet, retire the biner”.

Seems you’re not the only one that doesn’t trust dropped biners.

AAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHHAA

who spoke those words? :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Just to be clear, we've got 2 variations of this discussion on biner use:

1. Dropping biners
It is standard practice in rec climbing to retire biners dropped to a hard surface (rock, cement, etc.). The height cutoff to retire varies per climber. Three ft. is a conservative safety margin and is a reasonable guideline for a beginner climber. It certainly teaches a good safety ethic and respect for gear.

2. Throwing biners in the tree
Flipping a biner (that's on the end of a lanyard or climbing rope) over a branch or around a trunk is a widely used recreational tree climbing technique. This use is not addressed by the "dropping biners" discussion. It is highly unlikely that climbers (like me) who use this technique will give it up. Refer to the Petzl web site where they recommend the AM'D Triact biner for use on the end of a lanyard. I feel comfortable with the manufacturer's recommendation.

From a scientific/metallurgy point of view it is very interesting to hear what's being said. Safety conventions are always evolving. When solid information is presented, tested and backed up by extensive field testing it's useful information to add into the "dropping the biner" equation.
-moss

Now, this is just hearsay, and I’ve held off on mentioning it, but now it’s time . . . .

A well known climbing instructor told me that one of the “On Rope” men (don’t remember if it was Mr. Smith or Mr. Padgett) once did a survey where he asked people to give him old carabiners that were considered to be unusable---ones that they had retired and would not use. These included ones that had been dropped from 35,000 feet (ha ha), etc. This universe of carabiners probably comprised more than those of us following this thread could come up with.

He strength-tested them and reportedly ***not one*** failed.

I don’t have details. I simply am reporting only what I was told. Maybe one of you who has an “in” at “On Rope 1” would ask about this to get the straight skinny. Apologies if my story is far off from what really happened.

He strength-tested them and reportedly ***not one*** failed.

First you have to import the 'biners into the rec climbing world
(not to be confused with rec.climbing!), THEN they become mysterious entities of fanciful fragility!

*kN*

1. Dropping biners
It is standard practice in rec climbing to retire biners dropped to a hard surface (rock, cement, etc.). The height cutoff to retire varies per climber. Three ft. is a conservative safety margin and is a reasonable guideline for a beginner climber. It certainly teaches a good safety ethic and respect for gear.

Nonsense: this practice is ridiculous--not reasonable--, as is shown by both experience
(the testing just discussed above), and engineering/materials knowledge,
also presented above. It teaches ignorance of gear, if anything.
("Dorothy, we ARE in Kansas!") )

*kN*

Well,each to thier own.

When I'm ascending a tree and actively using the throwball to help advance the line, the weight just rides on the 'biner the whole time, until there's no more rope advancing, then I put it away on the side of my harness.

Here's what it looks like when I'm climbing...

Hey, where'd the picture go?

Originally posted by Jim W
A well known climbing instructor told me that one of the “On Rope” men (don’t remember if it was Mr. Smith or Mr. Padgett) once did a survey where he asked people to give him old carabiners that were considered to be unusable---ones that they had retired and would not use. These included ones that had been dropped from 35,000 feet (ha ha), etc. This universe of carabiners probably comprised more than those of us following this thread could come up with.

He strength-tested them and reportedly ***not one*** failed.

I don’t have details. ...

Here is a quote from OnRope1's WWWeb site, which lists the fear of dropped 'biners
as "Myth #1" in their section "Myth Busters" ( www.onrope1.com/mythbusters.htm )--:

Myth #1: You should replace a dropped carabiner because of undetectable "Micro-Fractures".

This is the biggest myth we know of, and was probably created by unscrupulous salesmen to get you to buy more carabiners.

Truth: In a test by Steve Nagode, an engineer at the REI quality
assurance laboratory, 30 carabiner bodies (half ovals, half D’s) were each dropped six times onto a concrete floor from a height of 33 feet.  Following the drops, their open-gate strength was measured and compared to 30 control samples from the same production batch and which had not been dropped.  The statistical result showed no loss of strength.”  Inspect any piece of dropped equipment carefully, checking for proper function. Cast metal products are most
vulnerable to damage, fractures and cracks. To my personal knowledge, this happened once to a gray cast Jumar Ascender in the 1970's.
To my extensive knowledge: Drop-forged carabiners (and similar gear) have not exhibited this problem.

That's 30' higher than the so-called "reasonable" height limit advanced
by some in the above discussion--and on a quite hard surface (and the OP concerned
tosses within a tree and related impacts, recall).

I'm still listening to hear the slightest bit of hard rationale--i.e., from a materials
science or testing basis--for holding & perpetuating this myth.

*kN*

i dont care if it is a myth or not. After many years of following protocol, i retire my dropped biners. I dont give a buzzards feather if some of you freak out about this practice. Am i retiring YOUR biners? NO , so whats the big deal if i retire a biner?

for starters i rarely DROP a biner...they are mostly clipped thru two webbing loops on my harness.....however.......I have dropped a few over a large number of years, they now grace my rope bag haul handles or haul bag lifting point. Its not like i'm throwing them out or cutting them in half. I'm just not using them for life support. If some of you have a problem with this practice, well suck it up princess, becasue i'm not changing my protocol for retiring a dropped biner.

anyways....hellavu thread derail. The ORIGINAL TOPIC was the showcasing of a new biner i'm running. I can say that after over 1000 hours of climbing with it (in many on rope fields), it is a GREAT biner, and one that i will buy more of in the future.

BACK TO THE TOPIC of new biners!

Looks like a nice 'biner, though I prefer lighter ones. Maybe you should drop it a few times, just to make sure it is sturdy, though. I'll take your retired dropped locking biners if you'd like!

- Link