RADS (yo yo) Foot loop length

nickfromwi wrote:

I'd raise it up a foot, then have to take several armfulls of rope out of the tail to raise the I'D up.

That doesn't sound right. It should be just one pull on the rope with the right hand as you stand on the footloop and lift yourself up with your left hand on the ascender, the I'D just rises up to the ascender as you stand up.

It will never ever be as smooth or as continuous as a Tree Frog. Different kind of animal.

My foot loop length is the same for RADs or Tree Frog, works very well at that length either system.
-moss

If I remember, I'll make a vid of how I'm doing it and let the pros see it and tell me what I'm doing wrong. This could be down right fun!

love
nick

Happy new year from England! (It's been a while, I know)

I rigged up a RADS system exactly like the diagram below and, while I see what it's trying to achieve with a 2:1 mechanical advantage, it means you have to pull the rope hand over hand a distance of about 4 feet just to stand up on the footloop. You also end up tipping backwards and doing some kind of body thrusting impression. It just felt horrible

I came up with a much better set up (which is so simple that it must be commonly in use already):

I fixed double foot stirrups (2 slings attached to some rope) to my double handled ascender (I made this by clipping a biner to the top hole of the ascender and then clipping another biner to this so it hangs down beside the handle. Some foam tubing made this improvised handle very comfy). (The length was such that when the handle was at arms length, my feet in the stirrups were up by my butt!)

I then clipped a basic ascender to my waistband. To ascend all I do is:

Hang off the waist band ascender and raise the stirrups by pushing the double handled ascender up the rope as far as I can reach. Then I simple stand up on the stirrups while pulling up with both hands on the double handled ascender. The waistband ascender will advance up the rope as I stand up. (For safety I also attach the double handled ascender to my harness with a slack line so that I'm fixed to 2 devices at all times)

This is nearly effortless because I'm using both legs and both arms at the same time and by pulling with both hands from high above my head I'm not going to find myself tipping backwards either.

I'll attach a photo when I get the chance...

Michael

michaeljspraggon wrote:

Happy new year from England! (It's been a while, I know)

I rigged up a RADS system exactly like the diagram below and, while I see what it's trying to achieve with a 2:1 mechanical advantage, it means you have to pull the rope hand over hand a distance of about 4 feet just to stand up on the footloop. You also end up tipping backwards and doing some kind of body thrusting impression. It just felt horrible
Michael

I think the RADS is a little misunderstood, best way to use it is 1:1, if you try climbing by pulling rope under the pulley with both hands you'll end up (I think) doing what Michael describes above.

In this video the climber tries RADS for the first time (and jokes about Treeman "interviewing" me in another video). Notice the second time he starts going up how smooth his technique is getting. Note: I don't use a tether on my ascender climbing RADS.

The benefit of RADS is the inline descender, it is not as efficient or fast as jugging, tree frogging or most other SRT ascending techniques.

In the second part of the video I demonstrate a Tree Frog, you can see how much faster it is up the rope.
-moss

I tried RADS with one hand on the ascender too but that was still awkward to me. I saw the tree frog in your video - it seems to be a similar speed to my setup (I've yet to try mine on a long ascent yet though). However wouldn't the tree frog be easier if you used both legs at once to stand up (double footloops instead of the Pantin?)

Michael

michaeljspraggon wrote:

...wouldn't the tree frog be easier if you used both legs at once to stand up (double footloops instead of the Pantin?)

Michael

Having one foot in the loop and the other on the rope (Pantin) allows you to rope walk, your feet can work independently and continuously pushing you upward. Once you get going it's like a bicycle pedaling motion. Rope walkers like the Tree Frog have the edge over jugging and other "two feet in the footloops" methods. The Tree Frog is awkward weaving through tight branches, it excels out in the open. It is possible to switch a Tree Frog over to RADS mid climb when you hit some vertical bushwhacking. That's pretty much the only time I use RADS. It is an excellent intro technique for SRT.
-moss

I tried my setup on a willow where I live. I found that the friction through the waistband ascender caused the rope to lift up unless I tied a weight to the bottom of the rope. Also, switching to descend was difficult.

The addition of a pantin to one foot makes both of the above much easier and, depending on whether you raise both legs at the same time or alternatively, you can freely choose jugging (less effort as you pull up with both arms at the same time as standing up on both legs) or tree frog technique (which is more strenuous but would gain nearly twice as much height with each pair of movements).

A very useful video - thanks Moss!

Michael

michaeljspraggon wrote:

I tried my setup on a willow where I live. I found that the friction through the waistband ascender caused the rope to lift up unless I tied a weight to the bottom of the rope. Also, switching to descend was difficult.

Are you holding up your waist ascender with a sling or bungee? Rope drops through it much easier if you do.

For the switchover put your weight on the upper ascender, thumb the cam and pull some slack up through the lower ascender, put your descender on the rope in the slack between the upper and lower. When your descender is securely attached to your harness disengage the lower ascender, stand on the tail of the rope with pantin or footlock, disengage the upper ascender, sitback down on the descender. Something like that for switching over a Tree Frog. If you have a strap holding up the lower ascender take it off before standing up otherwise you won't be able to transfer load to the upper ascender.
-moss

That's exactly how I would do it. The difficulty arose because I didn't have a Pantin on my foot to stand up on to take the weight off the upper ascender.

I'll try the bungee idea, thanks!

Michael

michaeljspraggon wrote:

That's exactly how I would do it. The difficulty arose because I didn't have a Pantin on my foot to stand up on to take the weight off the upper ascender.

I'll try the bungee idea, thanks!

Michael

Did you ever use the single foot footlock technique? It's an excellent substitute for a Pantin. It would work quite well for standing on the tail when you're doing a switchover. More weight of rope under it the better it works, photos here

I use this technique every climb DRT or SRT.

You can always do a traditional double footed footlock on the tail to stand up but it doesn't lock as well on single rope.
-moss

I do have a Pantin but I didn't have it at the time. That single footlock in your photo would have been very useful. (The rug in the photo looks just like the one in my lounge )

Michael