Rappelling

I tried the autoblock today and it worked fabulously. 'tried to send a U2U to Redpanda, but I'm not sure I did it right.


Anyway, it's a great idea, held tight when I wanted it to, slipped like a greased pig when I pushed it down. Anyone who's rapelling without this should look it up.

I drilled into Rapanda's links and found an additional link with schematic of the process. I've also have read about this technique in two other books where it was referred to as a spider rappel.

This configuration also allows for pulling only a bite of rope through the rappel device. Clipping a carabiner through the bite provides less friction than the traditional figure-8, but the rope now flows in a straight line, minimizing twists.

The autoblock seems to operate under the same conditons as the Fireman's belay, where the friction hitch below the descending device replaces the person that pulls the rope taunt below.

Having locked up the reverse technique, where the friction hitch is above the descending device, the autoblock better distributes the friction between the device and hitch.

Since this is the season to vote, my vote is for the autoblock.

http://www.rockclimbing.com/articles/index.php?id=53

Regards,
Jim

Hmm. "Rapanda" is a pretty good name, as well.

Any friction hitch would work instead of an autoblock. In the rockclimbers "self-rescue" book by falcon books they suggest leaving an prussik loop fixed all the time to your leg loop, so you can just wrap it a few times around the rope. Make sure it sets!

also, you can also use autoblocks with webbing loops, rope loops, or webbing anchored at both ends. A loop theoretically puts twice as many fingers on the line, right?


Umm, I never check the u2u messages, because my only indication is a tiny piece of text in the upper right corner of an already busy screen.



contact details on the www page

Ben,

I use a pirana as my descending device on SRT and occasionally on DRT to reduce friction from the Blakes. It works fine. The only safety problem I ever had was when I dropped Tim Kovar's pirana out of a tree and had to elude his wrath. That, and it's sometimes difficult to switch over to from ascenders, especially if you lack a foothold.

A safety suggestion I would make is to learn to routinely lock it off (after you've made sufficient wraps around the device), by taking up the rope below the pirana and wedging it between the pirana and the rope leading out from the top of the pirana. Your weight locks it. When it's time to descend, just pull the rope out of this wedge, carefully maintaining your other wraps. Please don't try unless this makes sense.

Harv

I'm not sure why you folks haven't been using the Petzl GriGri for descending a single rope. All you do is pull the handle, and down you go, as fast or slow as you want. If you want to stop on the way down just release the handle. I use if for rock and tree climbing and it works well in both applications.
If you want something that's more heavy-duty, Petzl makes the "Stop" which is used for caving. In this case, you just squeeze the handle to descend, and let it go to stop.

I'm going to update my previous post.
I went out this morning and bought the Petzl "Stop" at REI for $77.00. It's made specifically as a descent device, whereas the GriGri is designed more for belaying. I will try out the "Stop" this weekend and let you all know how it works.

The grigri is used in yoyo systems for single rope work. It has a limited range of rope diameters it will work with. Petzl lists it as 10mm or 11mm. Most climbing rope is larger (but not all).

Do you use the grigri alone or is there some backup system incase of failure?

prosigna;

I have been using the GriGri on a single, static (BlueWater) 11mm rope, without a back-up. It works fine, but as I mentioned in my previous post, it's not really what the GriGri was designed for. That's why I went out and bought the Petzl Stop today, which is specifically designed for descending 9 to 12mm static rope, and does not require a backup.

The petzl website lists the Stop as being for 10-11mm rope same as the grigri. Did the product itself have a different spec than the website specs?

As far as backup goes - I do not trust any mechanical device without a backup. When I first rappelled off a clif I went down with only a fig 8. This is how most people I know have always done it. Reading this thread shows why you should not do that. SAFETY MAN - SAFETY.

The stops ability to self-belay is nice but what if it jams? What do you do? Scream and fall I guess.

prosigna;

The metal stamp on the "Stop" says 9 to 12mm, but I'm also aware that the Petzl website indicates a rope diameter of 10 to 11mm. However, the literature (on the site and in the booklet) says the unit is certified down to 9mm.

I'm not sure what you meant when you said, "The stops ability to self-belay is nice but what if it jams? What do you do? Scream and fall I guess."

A jammed device may stop the descent, but it will not cause a fall. In the unlikely event of a jam, I will simply unweight the device using my ascenders, and use my back-up rappel device, a Black Diamond ATC, to continue descending the rope. I suppose, in theory, the "Stop" could suffer some sort of catastrophic failure. But then, the tree could also fall over, or get hit by a meteor.

Jay, you sneaky rascal!!

I've referred to Jay ("kernsloth") many times in my posts; he's been my climbing mentor and friend.

He also happens to manage an arborist supply business. That Business, Blue Ridge Arborist Supply, IMO, happens to be owned and operated by some good folks who are interested in supplying good service at good prices.

Take a look at the link Jay provided.

I would be absolutely amazed if you were not fully satisfied with them.

I have been practicing w/ SRT using CMI ultrascenders and I have a question. After you reach the top of the branch but you are still hanging from the rope what piece of equipment do you use to get down and how do you install it.
What is your favorite method?
I did three climbs today and tried 3 techniques .
First ascended and tried to come down w. a rack. (Full-size rack). It was hard to install and disconect the ascenders while still hanging from the rope. I finally have to climb on a branch and do the transfer there while resting on the branch and came down. What I did wrong?
On The second climb I tried the figure eight to descend. It was easier to install while still hanging on the rope but them I could not remove the bottom ascender so I did have to climb on the branch to do the transfer from ascending to descending gear. The descent was a little too fast and whitout much control for my taste because of the single ropegoing thru the figure 8 but safely arrived at the ground.

For the final climb I instaled a GRIGRI to the bottom of the rope and hanged it to the side loop of the seat harness. When I reached the top I was able to pull the GRIGRI up, remove the top ascender and the bottom ascender while still hanging from the line and them descend safely and under complete control. I have used the GRIGRI before with a technique Panama Joe showed me in NE called the Yo-Yo and I see how the GRIGRI is a prefered piece of equipment for the job. Any suggestions on other techniques to try will be welcomed.

If i was hanging from ascenders to rap down. First, when you hang your 8 on your harness, hang it on the big hole, then you can thread it without taking it off your harness. The take the 8 off the biner and turn it around. Learn the extended 8 rappel. I have seen it in a book but can't remember which one right now. But here is the basics take an 8mm cord 72 inches long tie a double fisherman to form a loop. Take 8mm 52 inches cord tie another D fishermans for a second loop.
When your at the top put the eight on the rope, use the long cord basket hitched through the 8 and back to a biner on your harness. Take the shorter loop prussik below the 8 then back to the same biner. Tie off the eight with two wraps on the eight. Then make a loop to step in, about knee level. Tie that off on the eight. Now step in the loop you made and remove the ascender. Make sure the prussik is tight and start untieing the 8. when your weight is on the prussik BELOW the 8 use two fingers to pull the prussik down and start your slide down. When you want to stop take your hand off the prussik. There is no backup but the slide is slow and controlled and you can use one hand.
REMEMBER this is not instructions just suggestions, and go low and slow. If its mud I can maybe get some pictures. Let me know.

Anyone here use ATC's? Or is that a bit too rock-climby for you guys I only ask because I got a free one a little while ago, it works great on DdRT decents... I did it SRT yesturday, it went way to fast for my liking. I almost burned my hands. I like the ATCs ability to belay other people too, just in case. So I was considering picking up Omega Pacifics ATC, it's solid Al. so you can use it figure-8 style to get another wrap for extra friction. One problem, I can't seem to find out what size chord it will take, does anyone know? Thanks!

mateo

I actually called up the Omega Pacific guys to ask them that very question. They told me that the device would accomodate half inch line and under. I never did get around to ordering the thing, though. If you get one let us know how you like it.