Rappelling

For DRT climbers, I'm curious: how many descend solely with a descender (fig 8 or mini-rack or other), and how many use the descender in conjunction with a Blake's hitch or similar???

Me, it's just the mini-rack.

Mutt,

Until recently I have just used the Blakes Hitch alone to descend. I have just started using a Mini-Rack with Hyper Bar and only have about ten descents with it. Descending with the mini-rack I still keep my Blakes Hitch intact although I do loosen it a bit so I can come down rather quickly without much heat buildup at the BH. I know of two other climbers that use the Mini-Rack in conjunction with the BH (I don't want to speak for them though) and do not foresee my ever removing the BH completely to come down solely on the Mini Rack. With the BH loosened as I said I can descend at a quick pace and not get finger (or rope) burning temperatures but when I let go of the BH it does it's thing and puts a stop to my descent. I can only see positive reasons for keeping the BH intact while descending. Although maybe the choice of words (I use descending and you use rappelling) could be a difference. I always have been conservative when it comes to my descent and you may be more adventurous.

You have a great day!

Another potential reason not to untie the Blake's is that if you wanted (or needed) to ascend again, you'd have to retie the Blake's before you could ascend. In midair on a hard lock off with the rack, figure 8 or other descender, that may be a touch difficult to do - but obviously not impossible.

With a rope going through a rack or fig.8, I can freehandedly stop the descent by wrapping the tail end of the rope around my thigh a couple times. This can be uncomfortable for extended periods, but easy if I just wanted the chance to retie my blakes hitch!

There are other better/preferred ways to lock off a rappell.

love
nick

Hmm...I don't understand the advantage of using a descender along with the blake's hitch. I've never had a problem creating a slow, controlled descent by pulling down on the hitch.

I've developed recently a problem with my grip. I cant, it seems, provide enough friction in my grasp to provide what feels like a controled descent. So I've started using my 8 on descents. The benefit is that I'm not tempted to just take the fast drop and burn the poop out of my line, or damage the tree.

Icabod

Mutt,

I use a figure-8 descending device in a stitch plate configuration placed above the Blakes Hitch. This requires slack in the rope before the descent. I pull a bight of rope through a figure-8 descending device and place a pear-shaped carabiner through the bight. The carabiner is attached to the working end of the rope with a Prusik knot. These are the benefits: ease of single-hand control on the Blakes Hitch and minimum twisting of the rope on descent. For me, descending on a Blake's Hitch only is like fingernails screetching across a blackboard. I prefer smooth and controlled descents minus the excessive friction on the rope.

Jepson in the "The Tree Climber's Companion" 2nd Ed on page 64 provides a caution on using the Blake's Hitch alone, stating that the descent must be slow to minimize heat damage to the rope. Then on page 82, Jepson advises that a descending device be used in conjunction with a friction hitch on descent for the purpose of reducing damage to the rope.

All materials wear. Adding a device to the Blake's Hitch on descent minimizes the wear of your rope. That saves you money.

Lastly, Harry W. Barnhurst's caution about the use of the wording descent versus rappel is good. Rappel evokes the image of an athletic quality of descent where it's rapid. Rapid descents open the possibility of uncontrolled descents. Clearly there are people here with the skill to rappel with speed. When one regards that the purpose of this website is to promote recreational climbing, one has to view the extreme possibility of dealing with thousands of people. In a thousand people, there are certainly some that shouldn't be striving for rappel speed.

Regards,
JimK:cool:

Okay, so it seems that people use a descender when they want to descend lower in a tree (thus keeping their hitch tied for further climbing), or for providing a slow, smooth, belayed drop to the ground. Thanks to everyone for clearing that up.

As far as fast rappells having a better chance of becoming uncontrolled drops - does anyone have any further experience or knowledge of this? When I have a clear drop to the ground, I love dropping like a rock on a rappell, finishing with a nice, smooth deceleration at the end, so I land with a light tap on my feet. I've never had any close-calls or any situations where I felt like I didn't have enough friction. I've always felt it was very easy to stop a rappell, just by pulling down on the rope below the rack, or by bringing the rope up and doing a soft lock off. But I'm doing descents using a mini-rack on 1/2 inch arborist rope, doubled. I'm wondering if the risk is greater for static kernmantle rope, "undoubled", if that makes sense?

i've got the perfect system for you, cant be bothered to explain it though so i'll take some pics tomorrow and post them

Originally posted by stevebullman
i've got the perfect system for you, cant be bothered to explain it though so i'll take some pics tomorrow and post them

Great! I'll be in your debt. :cool:

Originally posted by Mutt
When I have a clear drop to the ground, I love dropping like a rock on a rappell, finishing with a nice, smooth deceleration at the end, so I land with a light tap on my feet.

That can certainly be fun to do, especially in an SRT system (because the rope isn't moving, you don't have to worry about any wear damage to the rope at your anchor point). I would assume that you're using a cambium saver or a ring-and-strap false crotch for your DRT setup... A fast descent without tree protection would oviously have a higher chance of harming the anchor limb's bark.

Looking forward to hearing about stevebullman's setup.

Patrick, actually I just send both ends of the rope to the ground and then clip on to the doubled-up lines rather than having a set-up where the rope moves over the crotch while descending.

Edit: The only thing I have to watch out for is the rack becoming hot enough to melt the rope, but that hasn't happened yet!

ok my mate cut out the top part on this first pic but its on the next 2 pics.
I have the tail of my line running through a seperate caribiner attached to the aluminum ring on my butterfly. this keeps the line nicely out of the way and i find it stops it tangling with your flipline/strop whatever you are using, and for us climbing arborists, stops it twisting round a hanging chainsaw strop. secondly i use it to control my descent when i release the shunt(see pic 2&3) The shunt serves as a self advancing friction hitch, and the line just falls through the balaying biner on the aluminium rings. so no need to keep adding and taking off kit for every move you make.
If im gonna make a long fast descent then i stick on the fig8 as in pic 3
that coupled with a cambium saver with a pulley attached gives a real quick smooth descent with minimum friction. with the shunt completely released it doesn't heat like a blakes or similar.

using the tail end of the line to belay descent

fig 8 attached for long fast descent

Hope you give this a try, took me about 2 weeks to be converted, now i love it, climb on this everyday and have't found a down side to it yet