Moss in the newspaper

Moss
you mentioned "selecting the site" as one of the challenges. I totally agree. (havent read the article but) is this site on private property?
Do you normally climb on private property or public land when facilitating?

Originally posted by ziontree
Moss
you mentioned "selecting the site" as one of the challenges. I totally agree. (havent read the article but) is this site on private property?
Do you normally climb on private property or public land when facilitating?

We've been using public land with permission for group climbs. These sites are few and far between. We're working on opening up additional locations public and private. The most recent site is somewhat sensitive woods habitat and will only be used as a one-time site or perhaps once a year. Low impact technique is used but just having eight people hanging around the tree for 5 hours at one location is going to have effect on ground cover and causes some soil compaction.

The ideal is to designate a site that can be prepared properly with wood chips on the ground etc. so that it can be used for multiple climbs, not there yet. Right now it's rotating trees which increases prep work per climb.
-moss

Originally posted by Electrojake
By the way, that’s an interesting piece of “saddle size research” you have posted.
-Ej-

Definitely. To round out the NT list I'd add the "Kids Saddle". Once you do that there is size parity between NT and Weaver, NT probably covers a greater size range overall. It looks like NT is going to work best cost and comfortwise based on the harnesses Erie came up with.
-moss

At Moss's suggestion, I added the NT kid size and the Weaver size ranges to my summary. The Weaver size distribution that I found on their website turns out to be a bit different than NT.

Moss said,

<snip> NT probably covers a greater size range overall. It looks like NT is going to work best cost and comfortwise based on the harnesses Erie came up with.

I see what you mean, Moss -- especially for a guy who is offering climbing experiences to the public. You sort of assume that your climbs will attract a normal distribution of waist size. One could try to figure out how the saddle size distribution of the various saddle-makers intersects with the waist size distribution of the people who seek out faciliated tree climbing experiences.

However, imagine that a group of really big guys show up? Or, a scout troop or youth group? In either case with a bag of NT, Weaver or Buckingham, some of your saddles won't be able to be utilized and the number of simultaneous climbers will be limited.

Seems to me for a faciliator who has a fixed budget for saddles, you'd be better off buying a passel of either the Navajo or Butterfly II since they accomodate such a wide range of waist size. Clearly there are other considerations when you decide to run a tree-climbing school (comfort, cost, durability are a few), and the line of reasoning above only considers fit. Also, maybe the size of your school is a factor in this decision. If you are a small organization (and not trying to squeeze every cent out of the operation), maybe having a few extra saddles isn't a big deal.

In my case, I'm looking to buy only one harness (to minimize cash outlay) so that my Dad, or a friend can accompany me on a climb. It'll be used for many different people, some large, some small. I climb in a NT Vi Special (stock) and really like it -- I'd like to buy another NT for my single spare harness, but am afraid that several of my friends would not fit into the same size harness.

Sounds like the Vario will work best for you for a single harness solution. I'm trying to be as economical as possible but I want to meet a bare minimum comfort level for my climbers.

On the recent climb I had one climber in the tree for 4 hours straight and I don't think she would have done that with a traditional arborist style leg strap. She was climbing on my wife's harness (thanks Meg) which is the NT Vi's Special Saddle, this harness has the work saddle belt and leg pads and is more comfortable than the Basic. The Basic may not be optimally comfortable for all climbers, there are so many different body types and proportions.

I think it would be possible to correlate time in the tree to harness comfort for a given climb.

There is always the possibility that I'll get 6 people who all have waist sizes larger than 44" (requires X-large saddle). I can't afford to cover all of the mathematical possibilities so I rely on averages and some climbers may have to wait to climb, or not climb. Hasn't happened yet but probably will sooner or later.
-moss