Moss in the newspaper

I was alerted (via Google News) to a nice human interest piece that features a rec tree climbing class that Moss facilitated. (I have a Google News "alert" set for "tree climbing" and "tree climb".)

Moss, how many harnesses do you and your partner own to fit the wide spectrum of waist and leg sizes that might show up to your event? I've been kicking around getting a "guest climber" harness, but want one that will fit a wider variety of waist sizes than one New Tribe harness would (which is in two-inch increments, I think).

That was fast, we climbed yesterday, the article ran today I'll post more photos.

First off, the article notes a Paul Jenkins who assisted in the climb. That is incorrect, it was Paul Buck a TCI facilitator.

To answer your question Erie Buoy, I think the NT harnesses are the best out there for an intro climb. If you want to bring up guest climbers I would get the NT Basic harness size which is most likely to fit the most people (Medium) and then gradually purchase more harnesses over time. Next buy a size Small and then a size Large.

I think if you put your climbers in a rock harness they will not have a fun time since they will be distracted by pain and leg numbness.

My Komet Butterfly II harness is very adjustable size-wise but is expensive compared to the NT Basic (twice the price) and is not as comfortable on the legs. It is a harness for an experienced tree climber, I would not put a new climber in it. Plus if you get it you won't want to share it anyway.

Paul Buck and I took an intensive facilitator course with Genevieve Summers of Dancing with Trees. If you are planning on taking guest climbers up on a regular basis I would consider taking Genevieve's course (or Tim Kovar's on the west coast). Genevieve or Tim will open your eyes to what's involved in taking responsibility for the safety of new climbers. I can't say enough about the quality of teaching and tremendous practical knowledge made available during the 4-day facilitator course. The aerial rescue training alone makes it worthwhile but there is much more. Sorry to go on about it but there it is

Thanks for picking up on the Newport News article.
-moss

I didn't take many, was busy taking care of climbers:
Aquidneck Island climb

This is from a week earlier when we prepped for the climb:

Moss,
You are an amazing fellow.
The more I read about your adventures, the more impressed I am.

For me, tree climbing is a novelty. But you Sir, have taken it to a whole new level. I’m glad I had the chance to climb with you in the past. I guess you could say that “I knew you before you were famous”. I would not be surprised if the next time we climb together it may well be as instructor & student.

Keep up the good work.
The photography, your training, the inventing of gear & gadgets, etc...
Not to mention your rather impressive knowledge of birds, bugs, and trees.

That was a nice news article, moving all REC climbers in a positive direction in the eyes of the laity!
Electrojake

Yer too kind EJ. So when's our next Jersey climb?
-moss

Originally posted by moss
So when's our next Jersey climb?
-moss

But gee moss,
It won’t be any fun for you or Doug unless we have to shovel snow to get to the dang trees! <-snicker->
-Ej-

PS: If I was a man of my word, I’d cut the apron strings and be heading up to Mass. right now!
(by the way, is it snowing up there yet?)

Sorry to hijack your thread Erie. Thinking about it some more there is fairly wide fit latitude on the NT saddles. It's possible to climb on a harness that's a little too big just as long as the waist strap cinches up enough to keep the climber from slipping out if they invert.

There must be a servicable and affordable arborist saddle that will fit a range of waist sizes. You might try checking with Sherrill and see what they say about it.

EJ, hasn't snowed yet, as long as it stays above 25f it's balmy weather for climbing. Just have to pick a tree that's downwind. Should be good climbing weather well into December unless we get an early ice age. I may try to get down to Jersey before the New Year.
-moss

Back to Erie, but still off topic.
Erie Buoy, some nice photos on your flicker.
Welcome aboard, and thank you for posting a bio!

An adjustable climbing saddle for Erie Buoy’s guests. . .
My Son has been using a Buckingham Model 1290 in a size medium since he was about 12. It adjusts down quite small for him. Yet in a pinch, I can adjust his saddle all the way out and (almost) fit into it myself. It does have a lot more range than a New Tribe unit. Check it out.
Click this link: www.buckinghammfg.com/arborist/arbormasterclassic.html

Tobe Sherrill sells fancy versions of the Buckingham saddles. Nicer colors, less steel, more padding, etc…
Also, Erie, I visit Sellinsgrove & Shamokin Dam area yearly. Are you near by?

Regards,
Electrojake

Ah yes, the news media must make their money. The original link that Erie posted is now locked out. I managed to dig this up, don't know how long it will last. I talked to Paul Buck the other facilitator and we both agreed that neither of us uttered the quotes attributed in the article. It looks like the reporter had zero backup from the editor, media content is so disposable these days Great photo though.
Newport News article

Moss said:

Great photo though.

It is a great photo, I noticed that right away. The focus is crisp and the depth of field enhances the sense of height. I figured that you took it, Moss (until I checked the photo credit in re-enabled link, that is).

Thanks to both you and EJ for the advice about a guest harness. I helped face and install holds on a 40ft climbing tower a few years ago. During the job, we had one Petzl (Navajo/Vario I think) harness that seemed to fit a wide variety of frames and was reported to be comfortable (although the only comparison for the helpers who tried it was a rock harness). Consequently, I guess that the Navajo/Vario is also a candidate unless someone can rule it out.

I appreciate the encouragement about the TCI facilitator course, too. I have looked at references to that course on Tim's, Genevieve's and TCI's sites in the past, and will be saving my shekels.

One question still unanswered:
"How many harnesses do you and your partner own to fit the wide spectrum of waist and leg sizes that might show up to your event?"

The answer: a lot of NT harnesses, I'd have to count them, don't know the number off the top of my head. We've been gradually acquiring them. So far we've been lucky enough to be able to fit every climber who's showed up for our climbs. It's one of the costs you have to accept if you want to put 6 climbers in a tree at a time. Medium gets used the most often, followed by Small, Large and more rarely X-large.
-moss

I really should stop pestering you two but, come to think of it. . .

At 80 bucks a piece “guest” helmets can get expensive too.
Not to mention, if you’re doing six people at a time, six 120’ hanks of line, six saddles and alloy hardware, gloves, safety glasses, tree savers, throw lines & shot bags for all.
And one mighty busy facilitator!

I can see where things get a lot more involved at the facilitator’s level.

Yep, facilitating is a serious commitment. Or as my good Dr. friend says "You should be committed, or at least up your meds".

I like the Black Diamond helmet at $59. One biner per climber, no throwlines or shot bags for intro climbs. Ropes are pre-set, no re-pitching in the tree. I use a mix of 150 and 120 foot ropes, gives me a great excuse to try a bunch of different kinds of rope. I don't have more than one of any kind of rope. Some new climbers go right up to 60-65' on their first climb so 150's are very useful. I make all of my own pipes. Dipped rubber gloves are cheap. All this gear is purchased gradually over time. I'm finally at the point where I can just barely equip a 6 person climb.

I think the biggest investment of all is climb preparation: selecting the site, taking out hazards, placing ropes, moving gear to the site, preparing paperwork, communicating with climbers before the climb, I could go on Second biggest investment is running the climb, it's a lot of work, but a lot of fun and I usually come out of it with more energy then I went in with. Happy people in trees makes it worthwhile.
-moss

@EJ--> I live in State College which is about 70 miles from Sellinsgrove. Let me know the next time you are there and I could meet you for a day in the canopy, if you are interested and/or have time.

I collated the advertised size ranges of some of the common saddles on the market (those that I found listed waist sizes for, anyway)

New Tribe:

• Kids: up to 26"
• Small: 26" - 32"
• Medium: 33" - 35"
• Large: 36" - 40"
• X-Large: 41" - 45"

Buckingham

• X-Small: 24" - 28"
• Small: 28" - 32"
• Medium: 32" - 36"
• Large: 36" - 40"
• X-Large: 40" - 44"

Weaver:

• Small: 30" - 34"
• Medium: 34" - 40"
• Large: 40" - 44"
• X-Large: 44" - 48"

Petzl Navajo Vario

• Small: 28" - 40" (or 27" - 46" on the Wesspur site)
• Large: 32" - 54" (or 32" - 55" on the Wesspur site)

Komet Butterfly II

• Small: 30" - 46"
• Large: 34" - 50"

The Navajo and the Butterfly II would accomodate a much larger size range than other harnesses, although as Moss points out, the Komet is pricey and might not be optimum for beginners. The Navajo is a less expensive harness ($150) but I read mixed reviews about the Navajo's comfort. One wearer described hanging in it and finding the connection D to be up near his sternum rather than his belly-button. Maybe that's its tradeoff -- sort of fits a lot of people, but only really fits a few. But for a guest harness, that might not be a bad thing. Although it makes it somewhat pricey, I could get the Petzl floating-D kit for the Navajo to solve the problem of a too-high connection point (if it becomes a problem for my fairly limited number of friends who'd like to try it out). I guess I just now realized that there are two Navajo harnesses -- the Vario and the Variobelt. The latter has wider back support and quick releases on the legs and is 3/4 lb heavier. I wonder if the floating-D kit fits both?

All this thinking and there's only one truly good solution . . . buy one of each.

State College, cool. Climb or not, the least we can do is meet. Looks like 73 miles at 1:45 road time. Doable indeed!

By the way, that’s an interesting piece of “saddle size research” you have posted.

-Ej-