Infiltrating geocaching.com

So I have successfully infiltrated www.geocaching.com . A friend of mine introduced me to the website. I might become obsessed with this! I hope that the whole treeocaching thing catches on, and that website might be a good place to keep track of it all. I am hoping that there can one day be a designation there that denotes a cache as being of an arboreal/aerial nature.

Anyone else checked out this site?

love
nick

But it is VERY frustrating for me. I don't see as well as I once did, and frankly, for me looking at the trees dominates the majority of my woodsy time.

I've got a multi cache that I've made three attempts at...no luck to date. Maybe this fall...

Climb Safe!
Icabod

In 2003 when I first climbed with Don Stanford of TC Mississippi grove he had a GPS and a link to the "Valley of the Giants". We followed the GPS and before a powerful thunderstorm stopped us we climbed a hollow Tulip Poplar. I went vertical down inside the tree and could wiggle my fingers thru a hole at the ground level.

Three of us found the cache and logged in also. Check it out:


Valley of the Giants



Cut and Paste-
September 29, 2003 by treehousedan (1 found)

I was happy to find that one of our group in our outing (Don) had a GPS and the data to find the biggest giant in the valley. Since we were there to harmlessly climb those giants I had to see down inside that hollow trunk. The problem being that it is over 75 feet to the first limb.
After many misses and tangle with the string and weight that I had brought Don let me use his and we finally got a got limb to work with. Trying to get a lead shot pouch with a string attached up and over a single limb is quite the task. Once I had pulled my arborist rope over the limb I positioned a flexible sleeve that protected the bark from any rope wear I got to hoisting myself to the top. Abiding the wilderness ethics of no harm to the forest I always protect the tree from any possible harm. Those that think of climbing by using pole spikes are unaware of the proper techniques that have been established by those of us at TreeClimbingUSA. (www.treeclimbingusa.com) Don said that he could wait until I could get on a limb so I could set a rope for him but the day turned to a storm too soon.

At the top of the tree the view was awesome. Over a hundred years ago lightening must have struck and now the entire trunk is hollow all the way to the ground. Just like it's fallen comrade nearby that hides the cache. I was able to get good views that most people never see; the top of the tree allows you to see the whole valley from a great advantage; the view down inside allows you see the way limbs grow from the inside out and gentle sway when the winds blows while embraced by the strong limbs is soulful.

On the ground once again we hurried to take photos and pack gear but we still had to dash thru strong winds and hard rain. With echoes of thunder still sounding in our ears we piled into our cars to dry off still aglow from the encounter.

We read the logbook and recorded our find and now I am hooked on caching. I hope that all of the record trees will abandon the old USGS coordinates and convert to GPS. Getting folks into the wild has to be as meaningful for them as it was for us.

First I tell you about GoogleEarth and now you are Caching.

Next October when you sit in my crystal treetop treepee you will have to build one for yourself. Details at the Mississippi Rendezvous.

See you at the top,
TreeTramp

A crystal treetop teepee? hmmmmm

So I get this feeling that soon (very soon) there will be some treeocaches out there for us to go for. I thought of some things...

If someone (me, for example) were to have put a cache up in a tree somewhere (yesterday) with several potential "gifts" for the finder, should the finder get all the gifts, as a prize for finding it, or does the finder take some gifts, or a gift, and leave some of their own for the next person to find?

I should have done more research. In my mind, a big part of the fun was getting there, but the other part was seeing what it was you actually got. I might say 70% of the fun was the journey and 30% was what it was you actually got. After looking more closely at the geocaching.com site, I'm gathering that for many geocachers, the fun analysis would go something like this

20%- Presearch planning
70%- Actually heading out and finding the cache
9%- Reading the cache log and putting in your own entry
1%- The gift...a toy a pencil, whatever, that you take away from it.

I'm sure there's more to it then that, but you get the gist.

So on geocaching.com, they have nice forms to fill out and everything so that all the info is easy for anyone to find. I've tried just emailing them to see what would be involved in getting a treeocache designation, but I can't find an email for them. I'm going to start at their discussion forums and see how far that gets me.

Dan, have you used this website before?

love
nick

I really enjoy the hike to the cache sites but really do not enjoy looking for the caches. Much like Icabod's experience there are some sites that we have been back to three and four times and still haven't found the cache. Makes you start to wonder if they are even there. I sold my kids on the idea by telling them that it was like a treasure hunt but when we fail to find the "treasure" they get really discouraged and it is harder to get them to go the next time.
I really like the idea of recording unusual or otherwise special trees. I would hike great distances for that! Not necessarily to climb but just to see some of Mother Natures magic.

I think climbers should leave something behind too if they take something. The prize does not need to be something expensove, like a set of car keys and an address where the car is parked (your mean neighbor). Just kidding! Possibly an item that other climbers could identify as a geocatch item, like a specially colored key carabiner? What else could be up there waiting for the climber to retrieve? Ideas are needed.

Signing in to a log is good, but my experience with paper is that condensation eventually takes out the paper, even if it is water resistant. Any ideas on this? I used to have tree registers in trees but they fell apart after a while- paper wise.

How about a knotted cord? Every climber ties a new knot on the cord. I am trying to think of things that will last in the tree.

How about exchanging flags? Sort of 'capture the flag" theme, except you leave yours last. Maybe a monographed ribbon tied to the tree high up?

Any more ideas?

When are we going to rig our first tree? Got start some where.

I say if you are planning on leaving something do it in established climbing sites, not in the wild. I never leave anything behind, though I recently recovered my lost splittail 20' up in a neighboring tree...

The idea of established groves attracting attention with caches is a great idea, and frankly I think a lot of folks at geocaching dot com would be interested.

BeechBum. My kids just quit coming with me. Good. They ALWAYS sound like a herd of elephants in the woods.


Icabod

Originally posted by TreemanWhat else could be up there waiting for the climber to retrieve? Ideas are needed.

I more or less agree with Icabod that nothing should be left in wild trees except temporarily lost gear.

But... I have a stack of old slate shingles I can imagine cutting these up into say 3x5 rectangles, soften up the edges, drill a hole in one end, girth a short length of cord on it and attach a nail on a string. Put the slate up in the tree in a non-invasive non-destructive way and people can scratch their name into it when they visit. Slate takes writing with a sharp point very nicely.

There is the Chinese traditional practice of whispering long held secrets into holes in trees, perhaps certain trees can be designated for this purpose.
-moss

I'm not sure I really want to get anything from a "Tame" tree. Who decide what is established? How many times does a tree have to be climbed before it is an established climbing tree?

The lure of the Geocache lies in the adventure and journey of getting there. You take that away with "tame" and "established" sites. In fact, by making them established you set the tree up for damage since more people will be able to climb them.

I think that any sort of cache (geo or treo) should be inaccessible to the point that it takes a little thought, effort and planning to get there. That will keep the person load down which will keep the tree healthy.

Later

Bakes

But imagine your 4 hour hike with ropes and various gear, 30 minutes of trying to set a line and a two hour climb in what you though was a tree that noone else had ever climbed, only to find a flag, or a film canister with a pencil and logbook at the top.

I find enough beer cans on the ground in places where I'd suspect little traffic in my favorite forest, why mess up my trees too?

Hey, I'm ALL FOR marking groves of trees though. Go to my site and mark one on the gps page, that'll get things rolling, just please, dont leave stuff in it.

Icabod

Originally posted by Icabod
But imagine your 4 hour hike with ropes and various gear, 30 minutes of trying to set a line and a two hour climb in what you though was a tree that noone else had ever climbed, only to find a flag, or a film canister with a pencil and logbook at the top.

Icabod

Interesting. I think it's fairly easy tell if someone had been in a tree whether or not they left something behind. The small broken branches, the scuffed off bark on species like white oak (it comes off so easily just touching the trunk with your foot), etc. You can usually see where a cambium saver has been installed, it leaves a subtle wear groove or impression in the bark. There are so many signs left by climbers even when they try to be low impact.

I understand though how you see any human artifacts left in the tree as a kind of litter. I still think that there is a way to do it that could be subtle and harmonious, just haven't figured it out.

Most of the trees I climb have never had a person in them and won't until the next time I climb them. That's probably true for many of the trees we climb. The thing is you don't want people marking notable or champion trees that they've climbed as a kind of trophy or graffiti/tagging equivalent.
-moss

I agree with Icabod. The last place I want to see anything "artificial or man-made" is in the canopy.
Beside doesn't that go against the "Leave No Trace" policy that I read on this website somewhere?

Even if your intention is good and righteous it may be a nuisance to others so please lets not pollute one of our last frontiers. Especially in the wild.

Voice for the wilderness.

phil

Originally posted by Icabod
But imagine your 4 hour hike with ropes and various gear, 30 minutes of trying to set a line and a two hour climb in what you though was a tree that noone else had ever climbed, only to find a flag, or a film canister with a pencil and logbook at the top.

What are the odds of that? Even if this became 1/1000th of mainstream the odds of hiking 4 hours and randomly stumbling upon a tree that has something in it are profoundly small.

"Leave No Trace" is a nice thought but impossible. Everything you do leaves a trace. Your drive to the tree creates demand for fossil fuels and damages the environment. Your using this computer required the processing of thousands of pounds of raw materials. I have never seen a tree that does not bear at least some markings from climbing it (see Moss's post as well). If you think you are leaving no trace ask yourself what would happen if 1000 people just did the same thing? Does a dog running across the yard leave a trace? Not really, but over time it wears a path where it runs and if the yard is small enough it damages the yard to the point where it becomes a dirt patch.

"Leave no trace" should really be "Minimize impact to keep things beautiful and sustainable." I think putting a few treocaches in the wild trees meets that goal. Additionally, it may cause someone who otherwise doesn't care to start thinking about trees which has the potential to save many more trees. I don't worry about the impact of recreational tree climbers and geo/treocachers as I do about urban sprawl and development that destroy entire forests with a single decision.

Maybe, just maybe one of the kids we get involved in tree climbing (whether for RTC or treocaching or whatever) will be a policy maker that stands against the wholesale destruction of our forests.

I say let us enjoy "our last frontiers" before they are permanently paved over.

Later

Bakes

I aggree that there are MANY benifits to treeocaching. I have personally spent many hours promoting the use of GPS technology, and the sharing of coordinates for good spots. I have even invested time and money in setting up a website that has a database utility for depositing the sites. There have ONLY been two waypoints listed though. One in Cali, and one in NJ (thanks Nick and ElectroJake).

I have two points, lets do what Geocaching dot com calls a virtual cache, just list the site, we can figgure out code to let climbers know what it is. Or we can make TCNC the site to make this work out. Any help programming mapping applets or search applets (php/mysql) would be greatly appreciated. If one really needs to collect trinkets or sign a logbook, lets leave one on the level nearby where the stuff usually is.

I know, and have stated more than once here, that there is not such a thing as Leave No Trace, it's the law of entropy after all. But I just cringe to think that someone would leave something in a tree.

As far as dissapointment in finding a tree has been climbed before, it's not reality that matters, it's perception. Take for example the moon landing. Who cares if it was faked at a TV studio (I dont subscribe to this conspiracy, just using it for example) if it still amazes the world it had value. Same thing in a tree, if I want true wilderness, I know where to go, but I know that while I'm there I'm only truly miles from the nearest road. All perception. If I was to find a tagline left in the tree, or a log book, that perception is gone.

There is also the issue of how to connect treasures to the tree. The problem with straps is that they need to be adjusted for the growth of the tree, or else one would run the risk of creating gith damage. Nails, NO. Strings, birds and squirrles like to take those. That's a problem too that no one has addressed.

Just some thoughts,
Icabod