I finally made the switch.

moss wrote:
There are two general route categories, one is a trunk route, the other is a branch route.

Oh. Thanks for clarifying that. I think I'm going to try Ron's \"arms only\" scheme for the trunk route. My last attempt, rolling around with a footloop, was pretty annoying.

Davej wrote:

Oh. Thanks for clarifying that. I think I'm going to try Ron's \"arms only\" scheme for the trunk route. My last attempt, rolling around with a footloop, was pretty annoying.

Don't sell the footloop short for a trunk route, arms wear out much faster than legs. Two approaches:

1. One foot in the footloop, one on the trunk for balance. You can trunk climb all day with this technique.

2. I use this quite a bit, put both feet in the footloops, position the side of your body against the trunk and climb as if it was a branch route. Same technique works well for passing a limb on the way up.
-moss

moss wrote:
2. I use this quite a bit, put both feet in the footloops, position the side of your body against the trunk and climb as if it was a branch route.

Urp, I'd really like to have my feet against the trunk. Is that possible without wearing roller skates?

I never really thought much of it, but I've never had a problem at least keeping both toes against the tree when using loops or even a loop and a pantin. Keeps me facing the tree and steady without rubbing along with my shoulder. I can't imagine trying to go arms only though. Yikes.

canopyboy wrote:

I never really thought much of it, but I've never had a problem at least keeping both toes against the tree when using loops or even a loop and a pantin. Keeps me facing the tree and steady without rubbing along with my shoulder. I can't imagine trying to go arms only though. Yikes.

When I'm facilitating climbs I do a demo arms only climb ( a couple of pulls) to give them a very good idea of why footloops are so helpful

All depends on the rope position/hang angle of course, if your knees being pushed up against the trunk usually one foot needs to be free to hold you off the trunk. If the rope is a little away from the trunk but your feet have contact then two feet in the loops works and you can still balance on the trunk (like you said).

In this video you'll see me climbing with my side and even my back to the trunk, I don't care what my position is if I'm not being pressed too hard against the trunk by the rope angle. I'd rather have both feet dedicated to the down rope than not. Once I get closer to the TIP I have to get a foot free to keep me off the trunk:
Ascent/Descent
-moss

Elrohir wrote:

Moss, do you happen to have a pic or video of your complete Hitch Climber system in use? I like the concept of attaching to the NT saddle at the D instead of on the pear, I need to try that out.

I posted a video documenting my DRT system in this thread:
Custom DRT system

-moss

Thanks Moss, that was very informative. I like how you keep the standing end from interfering with the hitch by connecting it to the pear and the hitch biner to the D. Despite the presence of the multiple connection points on the Hitch Climber pulley, I can't seem to avoid that problem, even with a spliced end-- perhaps my Bee Line closed loop is too short or something.

I also like the Blake-iness of your XT hitch...it didn't appear to need to be \"snugged\" forward to encourage it to grip, nor did it appear to strangle your line too tightly. I've had both issues with variations on the Distel and the Knut.

Overall that looks like a pleasingly fluid and acrobatic way to climb, with both hands above the hitch. It definitely eliminates any desire for a bridge to make the closed system operable from below as with the Blake's.

Thanks again!

Glad you like it. Now you cam see why I'm uninterested in implementing the Hitch Climber, the Tengu basically has the hitch climber's functionality built-in.
-moss

Wow, I just tried your system out today, and it's very smooth. Attaching to the D instead of the top of the Pear gives you a precious few more inches of space above the hitch to haul in line, which is very nice. The \"sitback\" takes a little getting used to, but you can easily do multiple hauls between each set to make up for it. This arrangement (and the XT hitch on 8mm Beeline) completely eliminates all hitch interference, and the hitch doesn't need to be shrugged up after each advance, to encourage it to grab.

Now my only complaint is that my D is getting crowded...I had just started attaching my Trango cinch lanyard down there, with its standing end similarly up on the Pear, to keep them from interfering. To avoid cross-loading the carabiners, this forces me to move the Tango up to the Pear, and then attach the lanyard standing end to one of the unused holes on my Hitch Climber pulley coming off the D. This seems to work well, except for the engineer in me that hates to see interdependency in systems that should be completely redundant, in case of catastrophic failure. Someday maybe I'll switch to a rope bridge saddle to alleviate these crowding concerns, using the Hitch Climber as a rolling connection point...but the NT saddles are just too comfortable to warrant a switch!

Incidentally, I absolutely love the Trango Cinch for a lanyard adjuster...it is functionally perfect. It could only be improved by having a second hole to attach the standing end carabiner, but there is really no place on the device for a second hole, given how the two sheaves move. Can't wait to get the New Tribe Trango Cinch Kit with the Chameleon eye spliced by Nick!

Elrohir wrote:

The \"sitback\" takes a little getting used to, but you can easily do multiple hauls between each set to make up for it.

There shouldn't be any sitback, it sounds like you've introduced some play into the system, either your hitch cord is too long or something else. Do you need to use a hitch climber pulley on your leg strap D? That sounds like it could be adding the extra slack. Optimally you just want a single carabiner in the soft D with the hitch cord attached to it and a micropulley as a slack tender (very important to have the micropulley otherwise it doesn't self tend very well when you stand on the down rope).

Also, I'm not having a crowding problem. There should only be the bottom of the pear and the carabiner holding the hitch in the legstrap D. There are two potential locations for a lanyard, both ends on one side or the other on the pear, which is what I normally do, or you can put the hitch side of the lanyard below the tight eye on the legstrap D (the wider opening just below the D).
-moss

When I'm doing a traverse tied in twice I clip both legs of the second tie-in into a swivel which is always on the pear.

Yeah I may try it with an Petzl William and a Fixe pulley, which I had previously used as a slack tender on my Blake's. It could be that the Hitch Climber is introducing slack, or it could be the length of my Beeline, and the fact that I am using one from Sherrill with G-spliced eyes, which eliminates a couple of inches at the end due to the plastic wrapping. This may have prevented me from getting one last braid compared to yours.

I hadn't tried to connect under the tight eye on the D...didn't know if that would compromise the connector piece of the D itself.

I saw the swivel in the video, and it also looks like you had a split-tail with a thimble on the Pear. Do you use that when switching ends of the rope? I.e., do you revert to a Blakes when advancing? Or do you carry a second HMS and Micro pulley, and connect to the swivel?

Elrohir wrote:

It could be that the Hitch Climber is introducing slack, or it could be the length of my Beeline, and the fact that I am using one from Sherrill with G-spliced eyes

Yep, it's both, the Sherrill split tails are too long for an XT hitch with 8mm Beeline and the rigidity above the eye (Grizzly splice) causes problems as well. That's why I buy Beeline by the foot and tie my own.

Elrohir wrote:

I hadn't tried to connect under the tight eye on the D...didn't know if that would compromise the connector piece of the D itself.

I've been hooking the carabiner that holds the hitch into the legstrap D attachment point since I've owned the harness, other parts of the harness are starting to wear but the legstrap D attachment shows no signs of wear. Hooking the inverted HMS carabiner holding the hitch into the tight eye on the legstrap D is key to making the system work.

Elrohir wrote:

I saw the swivel in the video, and it also looks like you had a split-tail with a thimble on the Pear. Do you use that when switching ends of the rope? I.e., do you revert to a Blakes when advancing? Or do you carry a second HMS and Micro pulley, and connect to the swivel?

The split tail tied to the pear over a thimble is what I used to use for a second tie-in for traverses and double-crotching but it doesn't get much use these days, I carry a second Kong HMS biner and split tail for my traverses. I like the performance of that system in a traverse better than a split tail and Blake's.
-moss

I'm loving the XT Hitch connected to the NT Soft D tight eye, with my new Trango Cinch Lanyard also connected to the D, just below the tight eye. This gives enough separation to avoid cross-loading the two oval carabiners. Both standing ends are up on the Pear, out of harm's way of the hitch and the device, respectively.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1848130&l=1ef2c6808f&id=616383217


Thanks Moss! It's a smooth system, but I definitely agree with your assessment: only advance to this type of hitch connection after the Blake's and climbing basics are second nature.

As I was taking this photo, a young Whitetail buck with four points in velvet came noisily traipsing through, and stopped to inspect my line as it hung below me...you can see his nose at the trunk of my tree, directly beneath my feet!

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1848131&l=c6fb2b3bef&id=616383217

Davej,

I would advise any new climber to start with a Distel. My idea is that climbing should be as easy as possible, oh, and FUN! While the new climber is learning be sure to know how to use a Blake's though,,,just in case!

The notion that everyone has to start with basics and then stay there for some length of time doesn't make sense to me. Learn the basics and the fundamentals at the same time. After all, how many of us drive to our climbing sites in vehicles that have carbs in them...nope...computer controlled fuel injection!

Before I get flamed...new climbers MUST know the Blake's and Tautline too. They are basics...learn them.