Conduit rope sleeves - again

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12 years 11 months ago - 12 years 11 months ago #132597 by moss
Replied by moss on topic What I know about conduit sleeves
Gray conduit sleeve material
It's worth noting that there are many different specs for 3/4\" gray liquid tight conduit. There is only one type of gray liquid tight conduit (that I know of) that has a minimum bend radius just under 6\". The Home Depot gray conduit for example is not flexible enough, as a result it's difficult to keep it on the branch when you're installing it. The good stuff is:

AFC/KAF-TECH Liquid-Tuff Type VF 3/4\" (is metal lined, vinyl cover)

It is not easy to find, I ordered it through my local electrical supplier and had to buy a minimum number of feet. Be sure to be very specific and accept no substitutes offered by a supplier, you don't want conduit with greater than 6\" min. bend radius. The gray conduit is very durable.

Black conduit sleeve material
The same is true for the ultra flexible black liquid tight conduit, there are many different specs, some are better than others.

I like this spec for black conduit:
ANACONDA Seal Tite M 3/4\" Type M.T.C.

It has a minimum bend radius of 3.625\" and has good durability. The cover will eventually wear out and you'll want to discard it then.

Conduit end caps
The best conduit end cap (called a \"ground cone\" in the electrical supply parlance) is the T&B 5333 liquid tight conduit connector. Erie Buoy posted this spec/URL here many moons ago. You have to buy the entire connector take the end cap out of it like a pearl and discard a bunch of metal parts.

I've looked into ordering just the end caps directly from T&B (through an electrical supplier, you can't order direct from the manufacturer) T&B requires a minimum order of 200 units at $2.00 a piece (last year). Dan House's offer to sell individual T&B end caps is very generous and worth following up on.

Note: If you only require a couple of conduit sleeves for your personal climbing it makes a heck of a lot of sense to buy them ready-made from Dan House or New Tribe. The amount of time, trial and error, discarded materials, wasted money will well exceed the cost for buying two. I'm a tree climbing facilitator and require a large number of sleeves, that's why I've made the effort to locate my own material sources.

Construction Notes

End Caps
I don't recommend gluing the end caps into the ends of the sleeve. The end cap won't wear out in your lifetime, the conduit will. You may wear out a black sleeve in one climbing season depending on how often you climb and the kinds of settings you use. When that happens you can transfer the end caps to new conduit material. The end caps screw into the end of the sleeve and are secure. I tape the ends with vinyl tape to further secure the ends and to smooth down the edge where the end cap flares below the rounded shoulder.

Cutting Conduit
I use a hack saw and a simple jig with two pieces of wood (to keep the conduit from moving while I'm cutting it. The conduit sits tightly between the two pieces of wood, the jig is clamped or screwed to the edge of a work table. I use tin snips to finish the cut if the hack saw doesn't get through the last little bit. I use pliers and a round file to smooth the inside jagged edges of the cut. Clean out the metal filings left over from the cut from inside the conduit.

So you can see some effort is required to get it right.
-moss
Last edit: 12 years 11 months ago by moss.

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12 years 11 months ago #132598 by Baker
Replied by Baker on topic Re:What I know about conduit sleeves
Wow, I'm learning a lot.

My conduit says (all) this:

Liquid Tuff Type LFMC 3/4 (21) 80c dry 60c wet 70c oil-res burial sun-res (UL) ADC/KAF-TECH 75C.

Again, it was free.

I am going to buy one or two, this material just presented itself so I figured, \"Why not\".

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12 years 11 months ago #132599 by moss
Replied by moss on topic Re:What I know about conduit sleeves
Baker wrote:

Wow, I'm learning a lot.

My conduit says (all) this:

Liquid Tuff Type LFMC 3/4 (21) 80c dry 60c wet 70c oil-res burial sun-res (UL) ADC/KAF-TECH 75C.

Again, it was free.

I am going to buy one or two, this material just presented itself so I figured, \"Why not\".


If you're getting 5.5\" bend radius then you're good to go. I had so much trouble finding anything like that off the shelf, you've done well.
-moss

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12 years 11 months ago #132601 by Davej
Replied by Davej on topic Re:Conduit rope sleeves - again
I'm sort of curious about the practice of marking the center of the sleeve. I can't imagine too many situations where I would be able to see that mark.

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12 years 11 months ago #132602 by Baker
Replied by Baker on topic Re:Conduit rope sleeves - again
That's just it. If you can see the tape, the sleeve isn't centered on the limb.

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12 years 11 months ago #132603 by oldtimer
Replied by oldtimer on topic Re:What I know about conduit sleeves
The bending radius is not a big deal until you try to put it over a small diameter branch and it breaks the interior flex jacket and a piece of sharp metal protrudes on one side, then the sleeve is out of service permanently. It has to be destroyed because the inside is also sharp and will likely mess up (pick) your rope. Also if the conduit is too stiff and it does not bend easily and it keeps coming off the branch and migrating down your rope into your hands- very annoying and could be potentially dangerous if there is enough pressure over the Blake's hitch to give you a sudden descend. ( Not very likely but accidents happen sometimes.) I have noticed that happening on the ones I made with flex tube from Home Depot. By the way HDepot doe snot sell pieces of the stuff by- the-foot anymore you have to buy the entire box that has something like 25 ft or 30 ft or something like that. IF you buy them directly from treetramp you avoid all the headaches and his are warrantied to work right specially the small diameter ones - They are sweet! unless you let mossy moss touch them and they will self destroy in a month hehehehe!

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12 years 11 months ago #132604 by Davej
Replied by Davej on topic Re:Conduit rope sleeves - again
Baker wrote:

That's just it. If you can see the tape, the sleeve isn't centered on the limb.

Ok, I should have thought of that, except if the branch is that small would you really want to put the maximum wear in the same spot each time? As long as you see plenty hanging over on each side I'd think you'd be happy.

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12 years 11 months ago - 12 years 11 months ago #132605 by Baker
Replied by Baker on topic Re:Conduit rope sleeves - again

Thomas & Betts fitting insert
before modification(L) and after (R)


Before (note hex points_


After (no edges to catch)


No rough edges. All smooth, glued up, and ready to go.
Last edit: 12 years 11 months ago by Baker.

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12 years 11 months ago #132606 by moss
Replied by moss on topic Re:Conduit rope sleeves - again
Davej wrote:

I'm sort of curious about the practice of marking the center of the sleeve. I can't imagine too many situations where I would be able to see that mark.


The important thing is that you see the ends of the sleeve on each side of the branch. I don't put a center tape indicator on my sleeves.
-moss

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12 years 11 months ago #132607 by moss
Replied by moss on topic Re:Conduit rope sleeves - again
Baker wrote:

....No rough edges. All smooth, glued up, and ready to go.


Looks good.The only downside is the endcap isn't enclosing the outer end of the conduit, that's where the T&B end cap that I linked to is optimal, it covers the inside and outside end of the conduit and has a soft rounded shoulder.
-moss

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12 years 11 months ago - 12 years 11 months ago #132608 by Baker
Replied by Baker on topic Re:Conduit rope sleeves - again
I know exactly what you are saying, Moss. I used a liberal amount of epoxy to attach the ends on one sleeve and PC7 on the other. I'm hoping that one or both of these will do the trick to keep the coil contained. I plan to inspect the ends before, during and after every use until I'm convinced they will be OK.

As far as I have seen, no one has posted that they \"have tried this...and it doesn't work.\" so I'm giving it a shot. (For all of us!)

I have even talked to the Precision Machining teacher at the local technical school. He is going to try to work up a CAD plan for this part (with a cup to cover the outside) and then try to get his kids to make it. Maybe they'll be in production by this time next year.:laugh:

I know it seems that I have put a lot of time into this, both making the things and reporting on them, but it's fun. I'm certainly not doing it to save money. Hell, I'm more in the hole for the connectors I bought than I would be if I had bought 2 sleeves from Dan! I'm a tinkererer-er. I like to make things. There's a certain satisfaction in it.

In addition, I'm toying around with these things as an alternative to the traditional edge protectors we use in mountain and urban rope rescue operations. I'm thinking that if we tie a couple of clove hitches around the sleeve with some accessory cord, and then tie the cord onto the rope using a friction hitch, the sleeve would stay in place at a sharpe edge, but still be easily moved if necessary. Pics later (of course)
Last edit: 12 years 11 months ago by Baker.

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12 years 6 months ago #133415 by Baker
Replied by Baker on topic Re:Conduit rope sleeves - again
Has anyone experienced a blackening (graying) of the rope when using a conduit sleeve. There seems to be no damag to the rope, just a discoloration. I assume this is simply zinc, from the metal liner, being deposited on the rope. I'm just curious if anyone else has experienced this, or if it's just me :-)

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12 years 6 months ago #133416 by Baker
Replied by Baker on topic Re:Conduit rope sleeves - again
Has anyone experienced a blackening (graying) of the rope when using a conduit sleeve. There seems to be no damag to the rope, just a discoloration. I assume this is simply zinc, from the metal liner, being deposited on the rope. I'm just curious if anyone else has experienced this, or if it's just me :-)

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12 years 6 months ago #133417 by oldtimer
Replied by oldtimer on topic Re:Conduit rope sleeves - again
No, I have not ever notice discoloration/staining of the ropes from contacting the sleeves. Are your home made or store purchase sleeves. I get mines from Dan House in Kansas or from New Tribe.
If you use a regular garden hose you will see that problem of melting gunk on the ropes. ( i did it myself once - they do not work anyway):dry:

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12 years 6 months ago #133418 by Davej
Replied by Davej on topic Re:Conduit rope sleeves - again

Baker wrote:Has anyone experienced a blackening (graying) of the rope when using a conduit sleeve. There seems to be no damage to the rope, just a discoloration.


Yes I've seen the zinc, and even a tinge of rust, probably because I use white rope.

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