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Then I want to express my sincere gratitude for the work you and your team(s) did to help make tree climbing, esp. work related, safer.
Originally posted by Tom Dunlap
I've been involved with the Z133 committee for years but this is much later than when the biner trend started. The definition of what an autolock is came from another ANSI standard. A very good job of wordsmithing.
I think you've nailed exactly what's troubling me - "...There has to be some testing out there by now..." One would think so. But since I can't find any reference to any testing done with screw locks in regard to tree climbing, it just imcreases my curiosity as to how screw locks got such a bad reputation.
Originally posted by Tom DunlapI have no clue exactly what the history is for not allowing screw gates. It seems to me, from using Stubai steel biners years ago, that they are more likely to jiggle open than autolockers. There has to be some testing out there by now. Every once in a while a piece of literature comes to light about some testing. Most of the testing seems to come out of Europe and is related to either sport climbing of some sort or rope access work.
I agree! In fact, even though my climbing will be rec climbing, I still have a desire to follow the ANSI standards. Where the conflict comes for me, personally, when I first got into climbing, I bought and auto-lock and a screw lock and started devising tests to see if one had any significant advantages over the other, and to be perfectly open, I was pulling for the auto-locks all the way. One day I was sitting in my easy chair with my biners and a piece of rope just playing, tying knots, etc. and I put a half turn around a auto-locker, pulled it and it readily openned and released the rope! I was stunned. I did it over and over thinking I was missing something. I mean all kinds of people use this biner, surely it really isn't this easily defeated. So I thought, I wonder if a screw-lock will do that. I tried numerous times and couldn't make it do it. So I decided right then and there that auto-lockers are dangerous and I'm using only screw-locks.
Originally posted by Tom DunlapEven though we're discussing this in a rec tree climbing forum the points are still valid. I have a [bad] gut feeling that a rec tree climbing guide/instructor would have a hard time defending the use of screw gates if it was shown that the opening of one lead to an accident.
Again, I certainly agree with that sentiment, but also again why do you have the impression that the screw-locks are more likely to cause an accident than an auto-lock?
Originally posted by Tom DunlapI would hate to hear about an accident that could have been prevented by using autolockers.
That's certainly one of the strong points for auto-lockers. I've forgot to lock one once myself. And that may be the best reason to use auto-lockers.
Originally posted by moss
I'm guessing, only guessing that the reason screw gates are not recommended is because of the opportunity for operator error, that is, forgetting to manually lock the gate.
I often wonder why the screw locking carabiner is frowned upon by tree climbers (rec and cutters), yet the screw link is accepted by most.
I would prefer my newtribe harness not have a screw link...and that is just how the next one will be made!
Answer; There are not Written Standards for Rec Climbers. It is up to the Climber Desires and Responsabilty to be safe while climbing.
Question #1: Is the redirect gear system I described above \"below standards\"?