Custom Friction Saver

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13 years 3 months ago #135232 by Treezybreez
Custom Friction Saver was created by Treezybreez
It always bothered me when I would climb to my friction saver and then wish that my friction saver was on a different crotch. Then I would have to fix my flip line, untie the knot, pull the rope from the friction saver, place the friction saver on the desired crotch, and retie the knot. Well, with the friction saver that has a steel carabiner on one end I do not have to go through all those steps. It is also nice when I am first installing it in the tree because I do not have to thread the rest of the throw line through a metal ring. I simply clip the carabiner on and I can immediately start hauling it up the tree.

I know some of you probably are thinking it is dangerous because if the gate became cross-loaded it could break. The gate however is 12KN (2697Lb)the vertical axis is 45KN (10116Lb). The Carabiner I used is a SMC Triguard. Also I incorporated a corner trap to keep the carabiner from loading on it's gate.

I would like to get some input from other climbers and maybe see some of your custom designs. I plan on covering my new one with leather to make it last longer.

Thanks for the input!
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13 years 3 months ago #135233 by Treezybreez
Replied by Treezybreez on topic Re:Custom Friction Saver
I tried to attach another picture but it didn't work so here is a close up of the carabiner. Also I forgot to mention that according to the book "On Rope" the x stiching pattern I used is not the strongest.
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13 years 3 months ago #135234 by 2chops
Replied by 2chops on topic Re:Custom Friction Saver
Treezybreez, welcome to the board. I like the idea of doing ones own custom gear when possible. Your FS looks like Petzl's new Treesbee. Good idea. My concern over the possible cross loading of the biner is the stitching on the webbing. No offense, but it's life support. I would'nt trust my life to my own stitching. Unless I was qualified to do such a thing. I do, however, trust my knot tying ability. Which is why I would use a piece of arborist rope and knots, instead of the webbing and stitching. Which I plan on doing this year. If you've had some kind of training in such kind of stitch work, then ok. Go ahead. But other than that, I do like your idea.

Ron

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13 years 3 months ago #135235 by Treezybreez
Replied by Treezybreez on topic Re:Custom Friction Saver
Thank you Ron, I have been a lurker for a while. B)

I have stitched my own friction savers before. It is the yellow one seen in the first picture. I have had that one for close to three years now and that is with arborist work. I think of it as like packing your own parachute. I understand your concern though, I had the same concern when I first started the project that's why I used UV resistant thread and triple stitched it.

The webbing by the way is from REI. It was their military spec. stuff rated around 4000 Lbs. The webbing is one piece wrapped around the biner and small ring twice. That makes the weakest link 8000 Lbs. the very center of the friction saver is where I notice the most wear so it is three webbing thickness.

You can call me Caleb

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13 years 3 months ago #135240 by moss
Replied by moss on topic Re:Custom Friction Saver
Welcome to TCI Caleb. Majority of rec climbers that I've climbed with use leather or conduit rope sleeves as opposed to ring/ring style false crotches. The sleeves are overall much less trouble to install and take out of the tree remotely. Clearly the ring/ring savers have benefits unique to work climbing.

Climbers who like eye splices on the ends of their ropes will have some trouble with the typical 3/4" inside diameter conduit sleeves. It's one of the reason I don't use eye splices on my ropes, I don't want to give up the benefits of using the sleeves.
-AJ

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13 years 3 months ago #135241 by moss
Replied by moss on topic Re:Custom Friction Saver
Here's an example of a 30" conduit sleeve in use, 3/4" inside diameter, interlocked metal coil inside, vinyl exterior, the rope is 11.6mm Tachyon



-AJ

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13 years 3 months ago #135242 by Treezybreez
Replied by Treezybreez on topic Re:Custom Friction Saver
Thank you for posting Moss, I have read many of your posts and have learned quit a bit of tricks. You definitely know what you are talking about.

How does the conduit friction saver compare to the false crotch friction saver when it comes to the amount of friction? I was under the impression that it would generate more friction since there is more surface aria. I will have to give it a try. I can see how it would be quicker to change crotches using the conduit.

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13 years 3 months ago #135243 by moss
Replied by moss on topic Re:Custom Friction Saver
Treezybreez wrote:

How does the conduit friction saver compare to the false crotch friction saver when it comes to the amount of friction? I was under the impression that it would generate more friction since there is more surface aria. I will have to give it a try. I can see how it would be quicker to change crotches using the conduit.


Glad my posts have been helpful Caleb.

If you climb on a split tail it's very quick to re-pitch when you're using a sleeve.

The friction on the conduit saver is a fair amount less than the leather sleeve and much much less than rope on bark. The ring/ring is even less friction of course but all things considered the conduit saver friction is not a problem at all, rope moves remarkably easy through it. I won't use the 1/2" inside diameter conduit for 11mm rope, especially in winter the rope seems to grab the inside of the sleeve more, not sure why. The wider radius of the 3/4" sleeve means less rope surface contact with the inside of the conduit in any season.
-AJ

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13 years 3 months ago #135244 by Treezybreez
Replied by Treezybreez on topic Re:Custom Friction Saver
OK, I think I get the picture. Where do buy your conduit and did you put those caps on each end?

The conduit saver seems like it would be better for conifers or trees with thick foliage.

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13 years 3 months ago #135245 by Davej
Replied by Davej on topic Re:Custom Friction Saver
Treezybreez wrote:


I wonder if some sort of metal "keeper" could be used to keep the rope away from the carabiner gate like the "keeper" shown on the strap? Maybe the "U"-shaped body of a shackle or a large chain link? Or carry a wrench and use a quick or delta link? Or what if you used a captive-eye carabiner with the rope through the hole and a "keeper" on the strap? Also you might try pull testing one to see if the strap breaks before the stitching does.

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13 years 3 months ago #135246 by michaeljspraggon
Replied by michaeljspraggon on topic Re:Custom Friction Saver
Hi Caleb,

I'm from England and I tried Moss's electrical conduit savers years ago and never looked back. I find friction isn't a problem with DRT climbing. I keep one on a biner on my harness with a short length of cord through it to hold it. When I need to switch from alternate lanyarding to a short DRT pitch if there's a gap in the branches then I thread it onto my lanyard, set it over the target branch and off I go.

By the way, the stitching on your webbing in the phooto looks scarily light and I would never trust my life on it. Look at how ready-made webbing slings are stitched. They have 6 or 7 rows of very dense zig-zag stitching across the width of the webbing, each row with entirely seperate thread from the next. Alternately knots overhand on a bight or figure-8 on a bight. If your using smooth polyester webbing then definitely figure-8 on a bight.

I like the keeper clip. I used rubber ones for a while but they kept breaking.

Michael

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13 years 3 months ago - 13 years 3 months ago #135249 by moss
Replied by moss on topic Re:Custom Friction Saver
Treezybreez wrote:

OK, I think I get the picture. Where do buy your conduit and did you put those caps on each end?

The conduit saver seems like it would be better for conifers or trees with thick foliage.


Just want to give credit where credit is due. Dan House (Treetramp) of Kansas City invented the conduit rope sleeve. The original model was made from less flexible but totally bombproof grey conduit. Later Elliot Su of Taiwan introduced the more flexible black conduit, less durable but more versatile. You can buy Dan House built conduit sleeves from New Tribe. I facilitate group tree climbing and always have at least a dozen 30" sleeves on hand. Also, I tend to ask my rope sleeves to do things that push their structural limits so I wear out a few every year on my personal climbs, as a result I make my own (economics at play).

I'll PM you the conduit spec and supplier. The end caps are a separate item, I'll send the part number. They twist into the ends of the conduit, vinyl electrical tape is added to further hold them in place and smooth the outside ridge on the end cap.

I've use the conduit savers on every species of tree I've ever climbed. The only one that is a hair problematic is American Beech. Upper crown branches tend to form very tight V crotches, I've toasted several conduit savers on Fagus grandifolia over the years. If you happen to abuse your conduit saver and break it during a climb it will not damage your rope, I've done it several times with no problems. You have to try really hard to bust them during a climb.

There is a 30" conduit saver in the photo, just can't see it :-)

-AJ
Last edit: 13 years 3 months ago by moss.

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13 years 3 months ago #135259 by Treezybreez
Replied by Treezybreez on topic Re:Custom Friction Saver
I had thought about break testing my old friction saver to see how much strength is left. Do you know what kind of place has accurate break testing equipment and how much it would cost? I remember seeing a thread on the Buzz board that talked about this.

I like your idea about having a "captive-eye carabiner with the rope through the hole and a "keeper" on the strap". An HMS style captive eye carabiner seems like it would work well.

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13 years 3 months ago - 13 years 3 months ago #135260 by Treezybreez
Replied by Treezybreez on topic Re:Custom Friction Saver
Last edit: 13 years 3 months ago by Treezybreez. Reason: posted duplicate

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13 years 3 months ago #135261 by Treezybreez
Replied by Treezybreez on topic Re:Custom Friction Saver
Thanks Moss, go ahead and PM me the info. I'm not worried about the strength of your conduit saver because the entire rope passes over the crotch of the tree. I was worried that a sharp edge might nick the rope but if you haven't had any trouble I guess it isn't a problem.

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