Any ideas of a dynamic system off a static system

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14 years 6 months ago #134274 by seejohn
I've been wondering about the advantages and safety of using a Prusik, or Kleimhiest to ascend the tree, then, through the carabiner that attaches the Prusik to the static line, using another line that will act as a dynamic system.

I'm thinking this will add the benefit of the speed of ascent, of the static system, with the freedom of mobility, of the dynamic system.

Any thoughts?

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14 years 6 months ago #134275 by oldtimer
There are several discussions posted at Treebuzz on this topic with pictures of different rigs climbers have developed according to their work habits. You may want to visit their site and check them out. Possibly have to do a search under "Climbing systems" or something like that. Many arborists have transitioned to SRT systems for fast ascends and then rig from that line their DbRT system to do their work and them lower themselves to the ground in either system depending of where they are on the tree at the end of the work.

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14 years 6 months ago - 14 years 6 months ago #134279 by Davej
seejohn wrote:

I'm thinking this will add the benefit of the speed of ascent, of the static system, with the freedom of mobility, of the dynamic system.


In the pro-arborist world they are keen on entering the tree on a 1-to-1 system. One of our prolific regulars can be found on Youtube demonstrating "Single-Rope-Technique" (SRT). For safety two rope attach points are required and usually two ascenders are used but a "minimalist" system can substitute a hitch for one of the ascenders. Notice that his saddle is securely attached to both the hitch and to the handled ascender, and the handled ascender is locked onto the rope with a biner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzGZxA757-U

EDIT-

I should address your idea of hanging the DRT line right on the SRT line. I think this is occasionally done but not regularly since it breaks the rule about having two independent connections to an SRT line.
Last edit: 14 years 6 months ago by Davej.

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14 years 5 months ago #134285 by nickfromwi
If I understand you right (SRT line hanging, prusik hanging off that, carabiner hanging off that, your DRT climbing line hanging off that) it all sounds kosher to me as long as you put a slipknot below the prusik and clip the carabiner to that, as well.

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14 years 5 months ago #134288 by seejohn
Thanks.
The idea of a slipknot below the prusik makes a lot of sense.
I was thinking of another step...
What if the cord used on the static line was similar to a friction saver(two rings of different sizes), so it would be possible to retrieve it from the ground? I'm thinking that a different hitch (not a prusik or klemheist)would be needed in order to work itself out when being pulled. Is it possible to use a vt on a static line? I've only used a doubled static line, not sure how different it is from a single static line.

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14 years 5 months ago - 14 years 5 months ago #134289 by fireax
This is what I have done (if I am successful posting a picture on this web site). May not be quite kosher as far as having 2 independant attachments to the SRT line, but it sure makes retrieval from the ground easy.
Attachments:
Last edit: 14 years 5 months ago by fireax.

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14 years 5 months ago #134291 by oldtimer
The problem I could see is how do you remove it from the ground( unless you have a Groud Trunk Tie) in that case it is not problem; but if you have a top branch (choked)TIP them all that gear hanging from the SRT line would have to be removed prior to the climber descending. Goog set up I assume since I have not tryied anyway.

Moss probably has used at it least Once since he is more inclined to try new set ups. :laugh:

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14 years 5 months ago - 14 years 5 months ago #134295 by fireax
I do not use choked TIP's. All my TIP's are ground trunk secured. I guess I dont see any advantages to choking your TIP. Seems to me like there are three strikes against it.
1. Can't use a cambium saver,
2. Cant retrieve from the ground, and
3. One of the few times I tried running a bowline up for a choked tie in it hung up on a very small branch on the way up. Could not get it to break loose, but could not trust it enough to climb on it.

Why use a choked tie in?

I just use the ground trunk tie in for the SRT line. When I'm down, I pull my DdRT through the rings, then pull the SRT back through the cambium saver. I pull the SRT line down from the same side my little ring/ring prussic is secured to.

Incidental to the main point of this threead, my DdRT line does not usually reach the ground during the climb. Got this idea from reading about the "Spider Lines" they talked about in Richard Preston's "The Wild Trees" book. One of the advantages of this system is that I only have to carry enough DdRT rope up to work the canopy (usually 50 feet). When I get to the end of the DdRT rope I tranfer to the SRT rope to finish the descent, pull the DdRT rope out of the rings, and either drop it or carry it down with me. Very important, of course, to keep a "Stopper" knot in the free end of the DdRT rope to keep the tail from passing through the friction hitch, and very important to secure to the correct side of the SRT rope (sounds elementary, but in a heavy canopy you cant be too
careful). Another viable option (usually, for me, with 200 feet of SRT rope) is to use the tail of the SRT rope for the DdRT (if you have enough Tail).
Last edit: 14 years 5 months ago by fireax.

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14 years 5 months ago #134300 by oldtimer
Quote "One of the advantages of this system is that I only have to carry enough DdRT rope up to work the canopy (usually 50 feet). "

If you are in the tree working definitely makes it easier to just carry a 50 ft rope to move around the canopy so you do not have to drag all that extra weight and get it all tangle up every which way. When you are done with the pruning work you just go back to your SRT Line and go down.

Question:
I wonder if the rules you guys have to operate under require that the climber would be able to reach the ground from any part of the tree while working away from the main SRT line.?

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14 years 5 months ago #134324 by sgt.gear
If I understand that right you are talking about ascending with SRT and working of that with DdRT. If that is the case I have found that if you are just going up after one limb (hanger or something) that it works fine but tie some kind of stopper knot under your system. But if you are going up and wanting to move around the tree then the chances are you are not going to set the SRT line in the best ankerpoint from the ground. I usually ascend SRT and the set the final ankerpoint for DdRT where I desire. Now if you are just going up to climb around then that works fine but the SRT system with your DdRT system is not very easy to slide up the rope because of the extra weight. Hope that helps!

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14 years 5 months ago - 14 years 5 months ago #134331 by fireax
True, sometimes I cant set my SRT from the ground high enough to accomodate all the DdRT work I want to do. In such a case, I carry a ring and ring friction saver or cambium protector up with me to set my DdRT after I advance my tie-in point. In that case I do not bother to advance the SRT tie in point, I just use my 50 foot DdRT rope to advance my tie in point, then set the ring and ring to work from. Obviously,I dont have to go back up to the DdRT to release it, but I have to be careful I dont hit myself with the ring and ring since I am still in the tree when I pull it loose.

Many times though, with the accuracy and reach of the Big Shot, I can set my SRT very high in the crown, which usually gives me the flexibility to work where I need with the DdRT.

I'm not opposed to working off the SRT rope either. If I have only one or two branches to remove, I can usually get them off the SRT and not have to set DdRT at all.
Last edit: 14 years 5 months ago by fireax.

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