Spider Rig...

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16 years 8 months ago #130856 by burrdoc
Spider Rig... was created by burrdoc
I read about one in The Wild Trees but can't figure what it looks like. At first I thought it might be similar to a Double Daisy Rope but then they mentioned it having a couple of split tails and being 60 ft long. Anyone have a drawing or description?
Thanks,
Randy

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16 years 8 months ago #130857 by moss
Replied by moss on topic Re:Spider Rig...
Richard Preston is very careful not to describe any techniques well enough to get anyone into trouble who's reading the book. Last year I was trying to answer this question, that's a long story for another day.

Anyway the upshot is that the research climbers in the book were using a form of adjustable double-ended lanyard. This is described in Dick Flower's intro to recreational tree climbing book.

Imagine a 60 foot rope doubled with a biner on each end. The center of the rope is anchored to the climber's harness with a pair of split tails. The climber flips one of the biners over a branch, brings it back to his harness and clips it in. Then climbs up on one split tail. When they reach the TIP they throw the other end of the lanyard with biner over a branch and continue climbing on the other side of the lanyard. This is known as alt-lanyard climbing and can be done with two shorter lanyards or one long double-ended lanyard. To be nice to the tree put a rope sleeve on each side of the lanyard. It's very easy to hang up the end of your lanyard if you're not paying attention, be careful.
-moss
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16 years 8 months ago #130858 by burrdoc
Replied by burrdoc on topic Re:Spider Rig...
Thanks Moss. Interesting concept. I'd love to see someone climbing w/ that but it's definitely not gonna be me. I've come close enuff w/ a short DDaisy to need dental work as Treeman suggests.
I would think it easy to get a biner hung up using that system.
Appreciate the description.
Randy

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16 years 6 months ago - 16 years 6 months ago #131065 by moss
Replied by moss on topic Re:Spider Rig...
burrdoc wrote:

...I would think it easy to get a biner hung up using that system.


If you're worried that the biner will get stuck when you're pulling it back over the branch just take it off the end of the lanyard and pull the bare rope end back. Then re-attach the biner. If you have a spliced eye on the end of your lanyard it's quicker to take the biner on and off the lanyard.
-moss
Last edit: 16 years 6 months ago by moss.

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16 years 6 months ago #131066 by treejockey2000
Replied by treejockey2000 on topic Re:Spider Rig...
thanks moss, I just finished that book and your description matched my thoughts,
although it does not seem that practicle in a tree as large as a redwood.

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16 years 3 months ago #131529 by Holden
Replied by Holden on topic Re:Spider Rig...
I've read The Wild Trees and had been wondering myself how that Spider set-up worked. It sounds like Moss is describing a double lanyard set-up.

I have a double ended lanyard from Sherrill (11mm) with a 2-way mechanical cam in the middle that I use when climbing above my initial SRT rope. The cam is supposed to allow for single-handed adjustments of the lanyard length, while holding at that length if weighted. I keep the cam attached to my main center attachment on my harness, and alternate the other ends of the lanyard to the right and left side of my saddle as I climb, pulling slack through the mechanical cam as I go.

Is that the basic \"spider\" set-up? From the book it seemed more, I don't know, specialized than that.

My problems with this set-up have been:
1) I find the cam doesn't set as well as I'd hoped (it's called Gibbs CliMair (photo attached)). It is nice in that generally I can pull through the slack with one hand, but fully weighted the rope still has a tendency to slip through the device. If I'm stopped for a while, or strongly dependent on the attachment, I've had to tie a stopper knot in the rope to keep it from slipping through the cam.
2) If I'm suspended with the cam and side-attached lanyard, my saddle holds me in a funny position that's not real comfortable (compared to being suspended from only the center of the harness). So while it's good for tree security, you can't \"hang out\" with this type of set-up (at least, not with my saddles).
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16 years 3 months ago - 16 years 3 months ago #131535 by moss
Replied by moss on topic Re:Spider Rig...
Holden wrote:

I've read The Wild Trees and had been wondering myself how that Spider set-up worked. It sounds like Moss is describing a double lanyard set-up.

I have a double ended lanyard from Sherrill (11mm) with a 2-way mechanical cam in the middle that I use when climbing above my initial SRT rope. The cam is supposed to allow for single-handed adjustments of the lanyard length, while holding at that length if weighted. I keep the cam attached to my main center attachment on my harness, and alternate the other ends of the lanyard to the right and left side of my saddle as I climb, pulling slack through the mechanical cam as I go.

Is that the basic \"spider\" set-up? From the book it seemed more, I don't know, specialized than that.

My problems with this set-up have been:
1) I find the cam doesn't set as well as I'd hoped (it's called Gibbs CliMair (photo attached)). It is nice in that generally I can pull through the slack with one hand, but fully weighted the rope still has a tendency to slip through the device. If I'm stopped for a while, or strongly dependent on the attachment, I've had to tie a stopper knot in the rope to keep it from slipping through the cam.
2) If I'm suspended with the cam and side-attached lanyard, my saddle holds me in a funny position that's not real comfortable (compared to being suspended from only the center of the harness). So while it's good for tree security, you can't \"hang out\" with this type of set-up (at least, not with my saddles).


The Spider Rig is a double-ended lanyard. But it's not attached to the side D's, very uncomfortable to hang off the side D' as you've discovered. Be careful about adapting arborist/tree worker techniques directly to rec climbing. The way an arborist uses a lanyard traditionally doesn't make sense for rec climbing 90% of the time. Think of the lanyard as a miniature DRT system, attach at the same anchor point on your harness as your regular climbing system. Your lanyard should never ever slip, it needs to be exactly as secure as your regular climbing system. Friction hitches are optimal for lanyards, this my setup, there are many variations, as many as there are climbers:
adjustable lanyard

The length of your lanyard depends on what kind of trees you're climbing and your style. I have a 60 ft. lanyard that I use for tall conifers, I us it one sided and then engage the other side when needed. Remember that when you use a double-sided lanyard that you have a loop hanging down that can grab all kinds of stuff below you. I use a 20 ft. one-sided lanyard for most of my hardwood climbing. My main climbing rope is my other \"lanyard\". Lanyard is a very subjective term to generally describe a secondary climbing system.
-moss
Last edit: 16 years 3 months ago by moss.
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16 years 3 months ago #131537 by Holden
Replied by Holden on topic Re:Spider Rig...
Moss - excellent advice and references. I've only recently been reviewing the posts in detail and I find that you are EVERYWHERE. Thanks for all the great information.

I'm a relative beginner, and have some (more) professional tree climbing classes scheduled for later this year (nice to live not too far from New Tribe). Still, I try very carefully to not climb beyond my knowledge and practice base, and reviewing your posts really helps me learn.

Feel free to gently, or harshly, correct any advice I give if it is poor or inexperienced.

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16 years 3 months ago #131540 by moss
Replied by moss on topic Re:Spider Rig...
Holden wrote:

Moss - excellent advice and references. I've only recently been reviewing the posts in detail and I find that you are EVERYWHERE. Thanks for all the great information.

I'm a relative beginner, and have some (more) professional tree climbing classes scheduled for later this year (nice to live not too far from New Tribe). Still, I try very carefully to not climb beyond my knowledge and practice base, and reviewing your posts really helps me learn.

Feel free to gently, or harshly, correct any advice I give if it is poor or inexperienced.


I should be renamed \"Ubiquitous\" I guess, someone else was just telling me the same thing.

I'm a beginner too, been climbing 3 years, maybe an advanced beginner.
-moss

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16 years 3 months ago #131541 by emr
Replied by emr on topic Re:Spider Rig...
Holden, did your 11mm lanyard come with the Klimair? It has stamped right on the body that it should only be used with 1\2\" rope. It seems strange that you could purchase the set together when they are not sized to be used together. That might be the reason you are having slipping issues.

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16 years 3 months ago #131542 by Holden
Replied by Holden on topic Re:Spider Rig...

Holden, did your 11mm lanyard come with the Klimair? It has stamped right on the body that it should only be used with 12\" rope. It seems strange that you could purchase the set together when they are not sized to be used together. That might be the reason you are having slipping issues.


They were sold together as a unit. The problem is the whole inches vs. mm sizing. The unit says to use with a 1/2 inch (not 12) rope, which is APPROXIMATELY equal to 11 mm.

I need to play around with the system a bit and figure out what it can, and can't do. Moss made some good points earlier in the thread. It may be that I'll just need to use traditional friction knots instead of this expensive mechanical device.

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