New Member needing advice

Hi all.

I am new here and looking for advise. I am 55 years old and have been climbing all my life. Most of my climbs have been a direct need because of other things I'm involved in. I survey raptor nests both on cliff faces and in trees. These days mostly all of it tree-work.

I did a climb in up about 60 feet yesterday in a white pine. I suppose because of my advancing age, it is just too hard these days. I suppose I need to quite or learn techniques that will make it easier on an old guy. I have climbed all my life with very little technical knowledge. I climbed yesterday with spikes, a climbing belt and a prayer.

I have done some accending of trees with ropes and acenders before and found it much easier. I'm not sure if it would work on these pines with no real big limbs and that get very thin at the top.

I guess I'm just looking for a little guidence here. Maybe some advice on getting some new and updated equipment and just to say hello from a new (old) guy.

Welcome to the forum Keith. I'm 53 and climb white pine frequently, I use single rope technique (SRT) and ascenders. If there aren't strong enough branches in the crown of the tree to support the rope then I don't climb it.

Rec climbers stay away from using spikes, punching holes in the tree is not a friendly thing to do if there is not a compelling reason to climb the tree (like if you were doing a takedown in a work scenario). We try to follow a \"leave no trace, do no damage\" policy when we climb.

If you haven't learned hitch climbing (Blake's Hitch) on a doubled rope, check that out as well, Treemans video available on this web site covers it well.
-moss

Keitht wrote:

Hi all.

I am new here and looking for advise. I am 55 years old and have been climbing all my life. Most of my climbs have been a direct need because of other things I'm involved in. I survey raptor nests both on cliff faces and in trees. These days mostly all of it tree-work.

I did a climb in up about 60 feet yesterday in a white pine. I suppose because of my advancing age, it is just too hard these days. I suppose I need to quite or learn techniques that will make it easier on an old guy. I have climbed all my life with very little technical knowledge. I climbed yesterday with spikes, a climbing belt and a prayer.

I have done some accending of trees with ropes and acenders before and found it much easier. I'm not sure if it would work on these pines with no real big limbs and that get very thin at the top.

I guess I'm just looking for a little guidence here. Maybe some advice on getting some new and updated equipment and just to say hello from a new (old) guy.

Keitht wrote:
I have done some ascending of trees with ropes and ascenders before and found it much easier. I'm not sure if it would work on these pines with no real big limbs and that get very thin at the top.

Spikes are now considered detrimental to the health of trees. Maybe you could use a false crotch up there where the limbs are thin?

Hello Kietht, and welcome!

As a wildlife rehabilitator, I too have climbed up to a GHO or Red Tail nest or six! There are way easier, safer, and more ecologically responsible, ways to climb than with spurs. Think about it, researching raptor nests is working for the preservation of the species, right? If you spike a tree, possibly allowing disease and foreign parasites to enter and kill it down the line, are you not also damaging the habitat of the very birds you are researching. My recommendation would be to take a TCI-based class or two. There are groups in many areas. If you tell the instructor what your goals are, I'm sure they can gear their instruction accordingly. at the very least, Moss is right, watch Peter Jenkins' video. It will immediately become clear that there are easier ways to get the job done.

As a naturalist and outdoor educator, my request to you is this: Unless you are felling a tree, please retire your spurs. The trees (and birds) will be better off, and will thank you.

Happy and safe climbing!

www.carboneec.org

First let me say that I am not really a recreational climber. (although the idea interests me) And unfortunately, I do not get to pick the tree, the tree picks me. We sometimes hunt for many months for certain difficult to locate species and when found I have to deal with what I find.

As far as spikes go, I do not disagree with your thoughts. In fact, that's why I'm here. I would like to find some other ways to get up these trees - especially safer methods. IMO, spikes are not the safest or the most environmentally friendly method.

I am taking notes of all your suggestions: \"hitch climbing\" \"SRT\" \"Blakes hitch\" \"false crouch\".

I plan to research all the above and any other suggestions you guys throw out.

Some of the inherent problems I face are very tall conifers, with lots of small unstable limbs in the way and where the crown of the tree can be very small in diameter.

I will research all your suggestions. Keep them coming! And thanks!

Welcome! A training class would be great if you can. But also check out The Tree Climbers Companion:

http://wesspur.com/Books/tree-climbers-companion.html

There's a lot of good ideas in there, explained well I think. It's still a handy and inexpensive reference long after you've mastered the Blake's hitch.

You might also check out some of the arborist forums like arboristsite.com and treebuzz.com for info. They often discuss climbing without spurs, usually with respect to pruning or the like. I find they compliment this site nicely. They don't really get to pick the trees either.

I've come to believe there is almost nothing a person can climb with spikes that they can't climb without them with the right technique. In fact, I think you can often rope up faster than you can spike.

So describe precisely what kind of tree your are climbing. Give us the specie, DBH, and size of average limbs where they connect to the trunk, and height. This will be most useful information- what your are actually climbing, to get more accurate feedback about the trees you must climb and the best technique to use.

You might join TCI. It's a one time cost of $20. Then use our climber finder to locate climbers near you if you are open to climbing with strangers....well, frinds more likely if you spend an hour climbing with them. The tree climbing culture isn't an elitist group. Gregarious folks mostly.

Myself- I am 60. I'm just retiring after a 30 year career as a working arborist/cutter. My bones are grateful for the rest. I still climb however, teaching at the TCI school and exploring the 100+ foot canopy at our new Hostel and Training Center.

Make more postings here and try to get out with some other climbers so you can learn some new tricks. Many of us are life climbers, with decades of experience. It's all in personal communication.

Mr. Peter Jenkins:

Wow, a real live movie star! Kidding aside, I have watched your video about 4 times now and have learned a lot from it. You explain yourself very well!

I started out many years ago climbing trees in my work with raptors. Just me and some spikes - no belt. I did a small amount of rappelling and caving and later used some of my rock climbing equipment to get in trees. (I'm 55 now)

I had never seen or heard of it done but it seemed like it would work. I just got my rappelling rope up over my tree and tied it off. Then I worked up using ascenders. I used the same ascenders to descend. It was slow going down but it worked. I suppose the closest thing to this now is SRT. This worked well in the aspen trees that I climbed back in the 60's and deciduous trees of various sorts.

As I get older now I must use a bit more technique than in the days when I was more agile and stronger. Something safer would be nice as well. So I would like to learn how to do what I have been doing for some 47 years now. Only this time learn it properly.

These days I have a need to ascend up fairly tall short-leaf and white pines. Some of the nests that I must get to are in the upper stories of the trees where the trunk may only be the size of my wrist. Usually there are a few live branches and forks near the upper parts of the tree. The lower branches are all dead.

Of late I have climbed with spikes, but find it more and more tiring as I age. I also desire to climb trees in a way that does them no harm. I have yet to try getting my line over the tops of the pines. I know it will be considerably more difficult that the deciduous trees. (with less sturdy branches)

I would love to learn both techniques of climbing, but whatever works the best for the pines I now climb is what I have a real need to utilize here and now. As I have stated before, I do not have the luxury of picking my trees. I wish there was a way to get an anchor around the trunks of these pines up high, but I am not aware of a method of doing so?

I will gladly join TCI. And will soon be adding more books to my collection. I want to research my needs before spending money on things I might not need later.

I have poured over the various forums and found each of you to be very courteous and helpful and look forward to meeting some of you and learning more.

Thanks

Keith

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I would suggest the RAD system. Uses 1 ascender,Petzl ID for descender, and update your rope to a static arborist rope, preferably around 11mm in diameter. Measure the height of your average climb times 2 for rope length. Use a ground anchor tie off. Get a micro pulley too.

This is a form of SRT, with the added advantage of being able to descend at a moments notice without switching over to descending tools. You will get to loop your rope over many branches at one time, giving you added protection if one of the branches breaks out- it falls to the next lower branch.

Quick descents will help you if you get attacked by a raptor or you have a sudden storm.

The system is described in \"Climbers Companion\". Start low-go slow- then grow, when you work with this system. It's fairly simple. You can use a foot cam or other assist method to go up the rope without using your arm strength alone.

Look into a Big Shot or use a wrist rocket sling shot and fishing reel. You can use one section of rod and a rod holder stuck in the ground. I like New Tribes 1.5 ounce sling shout weights.

Peter:

Is there a make / style of rope that will work for this method and also allow me to learn the DRT on? What about the hybrid ropes?

Keith

The hybrid ropes are fine. Go with the 11mm ropes. New England Ropes and Yale Ropes are the big manufacturers. I climb with a numbers of brands.

I would get a high visibility rope color. That way you get to see where your rope is going on those high branches.