Spreading trees?

How do you estimate the safety of what I would call \"spreading\" trees, where rather than a central trunk you have only branches heading up at various angles? For example if a telephone pole sized branch is at a 45 degree angle -- how strong is that? How much can you tell from the \"bounce test?\" Thanks.

So much to learn and so little time!

The type of tree, age, species, soft wood or hard woods, diameter of the branch, distance from the attachment point, included bark, visual inspection by binoculars etc, etc, etc.
Here is a link to an article that may help some in answering the question.
http://www.treebuzz.com/pdf/tie-in.pdf

I suggest getting a good reading at the Tree Climbers Companion and some of the other literature posted on line here and at the Articles section of Treebuzz. Experience of the climber and knowledge of the local trees is very important. Do not take risks and stay as close to the center of the tree as possible on the largest diameter branch es possible. Nothing less than 6 inches was the rule in Colorado pines during last year climbs.

Whether the branch union has a sstrong U shape on top versus a weak V is high on the list.

Learn brittle trees from flexible trees.

mdvaden wrote:

Whether the branch union has a sstrong U shape on top versus a weak V is high on the list.

Yep, learn about co-dominant unions, they are weak (V).

It really comes down to learning per species what is strong and what isn't. It takes experience in climbing, there's no predetermined formula. Be conservative in your TIP selection. On your first climb on any tree you select the strongest possible TIP in that tree and then stay tied in twice as you explore new TIPs higher up. I'm going on 4 years into climbing and I'm still very conservative (there's no reason not to be for a rec climber) in TIP choice. I want to get to know a particular tree very well (multiple climbs) before I'll start exploring TIPs away from more vertical trunks. You'll see arborist climbers hanging on very narrow diameter branches way out from the trunk. That's based on daily climb experience over many years and is sometimes on the knife edge of safety, again, something that rec climbers have no business playing around with.
-moss

When trees grow they split apart to grow branches. You'll then find either a U shape or V shape union.

The V shape is an included bark union and is very weak. Besides being hard to slide a rope through or retrieve a false crotch they can split quite easily. V shaped unions are codominants. Both sides are trunks.

The U shape is much stronger. YOu'll find that there is a trunk/branch relationship.

Take some time to google 'branch collar' in order to understand the physiology at work here. Another topic to understand is 'codominant branches.'

PUtting the climbing rope around the trunk rather than the branch is always preferred. Trunks are generally larger in diameter and more vertical than branches.

Keep your climbing rope as close to the trunk as possible. Branches loose strength very quickly as they taper away from the union. Besides loosing fiber diameter the fiber structure is different. Trees will shed branch parts in order to save trunk parts. The ends of branches will fail in winds/ice way sooner than the whole branch will fail at the trunk.

A very good way to learn about tree structure and strength is to go look at how trees/branches have failed after a storm. You'll learn a lot about good branch unions and codominant branch unions too.

Well, I think that for some of my trees I'm going to want to buy a 2nd rope and use two TIPs going up.

Davej wrote:

Well, I think that for some of my trees I'm going to want to buy a 2nd rope and use two TIPs going up.

That works. You can also use the other end of your rope for the second tie-in, this is the customary method for \"double crotching\".
-moss

Here's a photo of the inside of a plum tree to show what happens inside weak unions where branch angles are \"V\" shaped or even narrower.

This is cross-cut down the middle, and also sideways to make a base stand, where the cap is sitting.

You can see the included bark pinched between well over a foot down. No connection or bonding there. And you can see how a side limb that should have been cut off at pencil size, became a few inched diameter and also interfered with development of the central stem.

There are some good words here. What really stands out is that you will have to learn from experience. There is so much to absorb when you start what with the gear, tree species and condition, proximity of power lines etc.... Always choose a TIP carefully and even after you bounce test keep aware of it on the ascent. It can shift when you are on the move. If it does shift then you chose poorly. This will happen if you are too far from the trunk, on a branch that is too small or on a soft wood species, or if the branch angles even slightly downwards. Two TIPS is sometimes needed as when I recently climbed a big Fir where my only option were branches that sloped downward away from the trunk. A good rule of thumb is 4 inches on hardwoods and 6 inches on soft woods. And make sure the branch is alive. If you don't know if it is a soft or hard wood species then stick with 6 inches. Even then you could choose a branch with a defect not visible from the ground after careful inpection with binoculars. As was stated before start with large branches close to the trunk. When you get into the tree take plenty of time to inspect the whole tree. Actually, you need to be inspecting all the way up checking for deadwood, animals, bees and branches that are not connected but hung up in the braches - called widowmakers. A wise person recently said \"It's not how high you go but how well you land\"