climbing on the sharp end of a rope ???

thought i'd make this a thread in itself to see what the responce is.

In recreational tree climbing people always have a rope above them. In rock climbing this is called 'top roping'. I'm not trying to teach people how to suck eggs. just trying to be inclusive to those without any milage over rock.

On rock people lead climb. They climb up placing protective gear into cracks within the rock. if they fall theoretically they fall as only so far as the rope goes below their last piece of protection. The rope length is continuously altered from below by their belayer who uses various devices that use friction to stop the rope running free.

What considerations do you think climbers would need if doing this in a tree using slings around branches as protection?

Does anyone already do this?

Could this be a compromise that between risk and safety? Might this attract the bozo's? would thrill obscure tranquility?

what's the word then...?

The NFS Doreena (SP.?) Training center has a very good climbing guidlines manual. Someone I'm sure has a link...I've actually downloaded it.

Thing is, in there there is a section about climbing on trees with a diameter less than 4". It involves a lead climbing type (read: GEAR INTENSIVE) system of girthed hitched runners and biners capturing a belayed line. This requires a groundie to belay the climber, and alot of biners, and loop runners. Keep in mind also that this requires a tree that you can "ladder climb", which has two negative drawbacks.
1. If you fall, of course you are falling 2X the distance to your last point of protection. This means that you will be falling into and through the limbs that have supported your ladder climb. The experience I'm sure would be similar to falling through a stack of tires with nails poking out of them.
2. You will be in constant contact with the tree, and not simple contact like that that the rope makes in a typical DDRT or SRT climb. There will be an exponentially higher amount of contact from hands, feet, arms, legs, torso, etc. Each of these points of contact is another area of possible damage to the cambium of the tree, or any epyphitic growth on the tree.

So my point, in short, is this: the method you propose, while possible, is not safe, (and in fact may increase the need for an aerial rescue) for you, or for the tree.

Climb Safe!
Climb Smart!
Icabod

ps- I started climbing by climbing rocks.

I know people that "lead climb" trees when they need to climb above their ideal/adequate tie in point (tip). I did this once while installing lightening protection system in a tree, which requires you to climb pretty high up in the tree.

It should be noted that in rock climbing, they system is in a sense, cushioned by use of a dynamic/stretchy climbing line. We don't really do that in tree climbing. Our ropes will increase the loads at an anchor should one fall. Combine this with the fact that you are tying in to things that you were too scirred to tie into in the first place...well...just don't fall!

love
nick

hey guys, thanks for the swift response.



of course any lead climb would need a dynamic rope. sorry nick i didn't understand your last sentance. "Combine this with the fact that you are tying in to things that you were too scirred to tie into in the first place...well...just don't fall!" can you flesh this out a wee bit.

is response to icabod, you suggest that hand and foot contact with the cambium to be deliterious. i climb barefoot, always. it heightens the sensual contact and gives better grip and feedback of when a slip might be about to occur.

do you never make contact with the tree? do you not abrade the cambium when limb walking or tree surfing? I think one can be overly sensitive to these majestic giants we befriend. these are hardy creatures. i cannot abide willful damage but we need not clothe them with cotton wool.

climbing a tree doesn't depend on braches coming with ladder like regularity. you can brachiate up the periphery like a squirrel or body jam up between smooth trunks. often the features on the surface of the bark offer crimps and pinches positive enough to scale limbless trunks.

the photo shows the tenacity of our friends. only three times in a life time of climbing has a limb broken. more damage occcurs in a high wind.

cambiam for holds...

oopps a daisy, i forgot the attachment

i am uncertain of something. in recreational tree climbing do people never ascend the tree or are they always acending ropes?

real contact with the tree is my passion. to feel the taut strenght and flexibilty, the texture, gyrating around the complex flows of lignin. this is the dance, fluid and free.

That first photo looks a bit photoshoppy?

I might be wrong.

About that last sentence you were unclear about...I was explaining a scenario where you were already tied in at 80' in a tree that is 95' tall. Yet you need to go higher. This might be a good scenario to to climb lead (rock climbing style). You will be anchoring in to some TIIIINY stuff.

When you climb with a rope and all that, you DO climb the tree. The rope just allows you to go places you can't if you had no rope. In a sense, the rope liberates you. The rope opens up a whole new world. If you're standing on a branch, you can only go so far out on it before the branch breaks or bends too far. With the rope, you can put most of your weight in the anchor, allowing you to go much further out on the limbs.

I respect the barefoot thing. It is wonderful to actually feel the tree you're climbing. I climb every now and then in my flip flops, and sometimes they get clipped to the saddle when I'm in the tree. But truth is, you can go more places with shoes or boots. You can step into tight crotches without crushing your feet. You can get enough traction to stand on little sharp nubs that would hurt barefoot feet.

In a sense, your freedom is very restricting....and dangerous.

love
nick

i asure you i know nothing of photo shop. where's your faith nick

i like your explination of putting your weight onto the rope and going to the tips. i'd like to do that.

alas for the atlantic.

I think i might like to climb with you.

Climbing barefoot with no fall arrest?
That sounds neat! You can really get in touch with nature.

But…
I am just a bit confused…

If your not wearing a climbing belt, how do you get your chainsaw and dynamite into the tree???

Just wondering,
Electrojake

with conversational skills that can cut a conversation in two and dynamite in my pants who needs to carry anything into the tree

Bareroots, Thanks for the pictures. I congratulate for being on such a great physical shape to be able to climb that way.
I am too old and out of shape to be able to do that kind of thing. Also, my wife and my two kids would like to keep me around in one piece for a while longer.

I believe that most of the "tree climbers" in this recreational tree climber group are more into promoting the safety and training of the climbing w/ the proper equipment while preserving the trees and our lives at the same time.
I did a lot of "free climbing" as a young kid, since I grow up in a farm with tall trees in Venezuela, but those days are long gone. I am passed middle age and security is more important to me than taking unnessesary risks.

To me the safety and the confort the rope allows me to relax more and to be able to contemplate the beauty of the tree and not being concerned with falling down at any time and ending up killed or even worse, paralized for the rest of my life and becoming a burden to my family.

Keep up the good conversation and pictures flowing, but please be careful the next time you climb anything. We do not want to see your name in the newspaper headlines.

Hey electrojake Nice picture. I carry my dinamite in my teeth or in the back pocket of my trusty New Tribe saddle.. The chain saw is always on my right holster!!!!

Bareroots, I am most impressed--I certainly stand in awe of your capabilities!

Electrojake, you slay me! (And bareroots' response was great, too.)

Best to all--

oldtimer. i appreciate the desire to keep safe, especially when taking others into the canopy. i suppose i ache to find others wishing to kinaesthetically express themselves in the same way i do. i will learn the way of the ropes for others sake, how else could i introduce others to the trees. but , i seek a foil, others to inspire me in my movement and to inturn inspire. to see where we can take it.

take care up there. (i always do- it's like a meditation-not something entered into frivilously)

Really enjoy the photos of you scampering around in the beeches. In the US the imported european beeches that have been standing for a 150 years or so are some of the friendliest climbing trees around. I can't think of any other temperate zone species that have such tremendous horizontal reach to their limbs. Not to mention the smooth bark that's so easy on bare hands and feet.

It sounds like you are trying to develop a middle path between fully protected rope climbing and go naked let it rip climbing. You're clearly on to something. You've probably figured that your freestyle strategy will limit your lifespan or you wouldn't have asked the original question. So, it wouldn't hurt to learn the ropes and then modify rope technique to work with your freestyle method.