Emergency Training

Who knows anything about emergency medical treatment. Are there any good texts on treating a victim on rope?

I think it is time we discussed these issues. I would like to start training in this field for those of us who climb in the wild.

Climb Safe!
Icabod

We've had previous threads on this topic. I simply mention this in the event someone else is able to dig it up more quickly than me.

So far as I know there has been little training available for those who wish to learn about performing emergency medical aid while suspended in the vertical environment. There are various rescue courses and there are various emergency medical type courses (wilderness first aid, wilderness first responder, red cross training, etc.) but there seem to be no courses which combine the two.

TCI has talked about another major gathering similar to Nebraska next year. Perhaps the idea of having such a course, with both a WFR instructor and someone capable of instructing vertical on-rope rescue working in concert to provide training on this issue, should be considered.

Good newsletter, by the way! Thanks, Patty!

Joe I meant "Wilderness First Responder" like you said. I think medical assistance on rope is impossible without further danger to the victim.

Tell you what guys. Chunck down a WFR class on the ajenda, put the gathering somewhere on the east coast, and make admission to that class part of the facilitator course, and I bet I can drop the cash and take the time off to make it.

I need more lead time though. That is alot of cash to put down, and my work schedule is INSANE! So let us know soon!

Climb Safe!
Icabod

From what I understand, the important thing is to call 911 (or appropriate emegency response) then go get the person back to the ground quick. don't let them hang in the saddle too long.

love
nick

A while ago I posted a similar question here:

http://www.sarbc.org/cgi-bin/postit?login=sarbc&topic=rope

They said that the best protocol is to neckbrace, backboard if you're trained to do so and get the patient to the ground.

Rather than tree climbers trying to come up with their own protocols the rope rescue people should be consulted from the get-go. Our addition to rope rescue is to get to the patient and to facilitate getting a rope rescue tech to the patient.

Don't get me wrong. Tree climbers should be familiar with rope rescue. But, during that training the tree climber must learn their personal limitations.

Tom

Originally posted by Tom Dunlap
...Our addition to rope rescue is to get to the patient and to facilitate getting a rope rescue tech to the patient.

Tom, are you suggesting helping EMT's into the tree? You could only realistically do this with people that were already familiar with climbing. I am assuming that the people responding to the calls are going to just be EMT's not trained in rope rescue techniques.

love
nick

I am by choice a wilderness climber. Most of the time, for me, 911 is not an option. I need to know what to do myself. I can't go running off for several miles through the forest, hop in my vehicle, look for the nearest phone, call 911, wait for them to show up, then lead them to the site of the emergency.

I know you are going to ask me why I don't have a cell phone and the answer, quite simply, is that cell phones won't even work in most of the areas where I'm climbing.

I agree that 911 is the best option, but sometimes I don't have that option.

Yeah jmaher, you're right. I spend a lot of time out of what I consider "911 zone." It would literally take hours sometimes to hike back to civilation.

Definately. I take first aid classes and cpr yearly. I read. I practice. I can't swing the several hundred dollars I've seen for the WFR classes (and there's WFA, too).

How much can we train for this? When I worked in Chicago we had aerial rescue practice 4 times a year. This helped us to know what to do if something happened while someone was in the tree.....when you're working in/around the city.

Is it reasonable to rely on common sense?

love
nick

Being in the wilderness makes things very difficult. Time is ticking on a major injury. Getting the person down would be the next to highest priority, the highest priority being not becoming a victum yourself during the rescue.

Rescue is much simplified on a a double rope system (DRT). Single rope rescue is more difficult, especially if you have not practiced with a rescue dummy or real body on back up belay (less preferred).

Well I think many of us have the ideas. I too like Joe am a wilderness climber. I drug my phone with me last time I went out. At the top of the tree at about 80' I got alittle signal, but couldn't make a call. I think what I was imagining would be more of a class that would challenge us to plan ahead somewhat to stabilize a victim with what we typically carry into the woods, and what is readily available. This includes safe rescue First, then preventing further injury and shock. Worry about getting the EMS guys after all that.

Around here some of the high angle guys might not have a clue how to get sombody out of a tree where they couldnt park a ladder truck under it. I worked with a window washer that was stranded on a building (he wasn't trained in self rescue, and his work line failed). Here he is dangeling from this rope, out of reach of the ladder truck. It took almost two hours to get guys with ropes down to him. I could have had a rope secured and a leg over the wall in minutes if I had been there.

It's real late and I've worked too long. I hope some of that made sense..

So where can we get information about rescuing an injured/incapacitated fellow climber? What do I do if my buddy goes unconscious?

In theory, it seems pretty simple. But I watched the pros do it at an ISA competition and saw how even they had problems.

I can find first aid courses and wilderness first aid courses, but how do I get my friend down? I fully realize that performing such a rescue must require some in-person training and practice practice practice, but until that happens for me, I certainly can't spend hours getting to a phone to call Fire and Rescue while my friend hangs there, quite probably to die from suspension trauma.

Where can I **read** (the only option now) about what to do and what not to do when there is no acceptable alternative?

Or am I all wet in thinking this way?

Please correct me on this. My understanding of suspension trauma seem to conflict with the questions here. When suspended with legs straight down, and reletivly immobile, blood collects in the legs and does not circulate to the brain (or even back to the heart for that matter). This happens with people standing at attension in the millitary as well. They collapse to the ground restoring circulation and live happily ever after. When on rope with a fall suppression style full body harness, if you pass out your legs stay below your body. When you are active your leg muscles push the blood back up to your heart. This inactivity causes susspension trauma since your head and legs do not end up on the same plane and circulation is not restored. In a standard treeclimbing rig a passed out climber will hang horizontal. The risk of susspension trauma in only present with a chest harness keeping the body upright.

Spend 2 minutes, Josh, limp in the best of saddles. Make sure you have assistance, in case something bad happens. I've heard of researchers having difficulty breathing and hart palpations within the first two minutes.

For anyone interested this is a link to the OSHA site about susspension trauma: http://www.osha.gov/dts/shib/shib032404.html

It always seemed to me that the keys where to be in a (1) Static and (2) Upright possition. I have read about researchers having the results you listed but they were upright. Has anyone tried it while horizontal? I have no information on this.

This is the article I am using as a reference:
http://www.fs.fed.us/treeclimbing/safety/suspension-trauma.pdf

It addresses treeclimbing directly and is a dependable source.