Incorrect word usage.

It is close to a ninja climb in context. A little naughty and certainly secretive. If you get caught - you loose. What you loose is open to speculation. I have been caught quite a few times, and what I lost was a completed climb. It was a "catch and release" situation with me. I swam away to climb for another day.

how about taking a philosophical prespective.

someone might own the land but do they own the tree?

How much can a tree be said to own itself.

When you see a tree felled or lose one to a storm how do you feel. personally i have at times grieved the lose of a tree.

so i postulate that a tree has self ownership and that we befriend them.

if someone has an issue with my friendship they can take my non-compliance as a form of active protest.

don't climb a tree on someones imediate personal property; peace and privacy are to be respected. but outside this, with due respect to the tree itself, befriend away.

the aboriginal perspective of the land might be pertinent. how can someone own something that existed before them and will endure them.

what's the origin of the saying, we don't own the earth but loan it from our children.

I went and picked up the New Yorker today and I must say it was an excellent article. In my opinion, the whole ninja/poaching thing was reflective of a superiorority complex that, at times, seems to pervade academia. An overall attitude by researchers that laymen couldn't possibly share the same concern for our subject that we do. I didn't find it offensive as much as annoying. Of course we love trees as much as anyone else. I will match the concern for trees of any treeclimber that I know against anyone, anywhere. Even those that I disagree with on occasion. I'm proud that I can say that about my community of treeclimbers.

I don't know Stephen Sillett, the professor highlighted in the article. From the accounts of people who do know him, I would probably like him since he is a focused, intense researcher who loves his trees and wants to find out as much as he can about them.

He is also distrustful of other climbers and their skills until they can at least show him they can tie their own knots. I truly hope his feeling about other climbers comes from his own misconceptions rather than personal experiences. Misconceptions are much easier to correct than bad experiences.

One of his major concerns was RTCs finding one of his trees that he has wired with sensors and computers and climbing it. I would be concerned as well. I would also try to figure out a way to mark the tree as one that is a research tree and then I would let the community know about it. Not necessarily where the tree is, but rather how it was marked so that if anyone stumbled across it, they would know what it was and leave it alone. If anyone on this forum honestly knows or can even think of anyone who would climb such a tree, knowing there could be the slightest chance they could mess up a research project, I'd be extremely surprised.

In the article, the first use of the word "poach" is used in conjunction with ninja. The second use of the word "poach" comes when Sillett asks Preston not to reveal the location of a tree since he was afraid someone would poach it. For what it's worth, my impression was that the use of the word "poach" was Sillett's, not Preston's (the writer) so let's not bust him for using the word. Seems to me he was simply reporting the terminology Sillett used.

Indeed, Preston should be commended for an excellent article. I'd like to climb with him sometime. Sillett too.

But Wild Bill, I still don't trust them editors. Do you?

Be well.

Rod

While falling asleep last night, my chattering mind thought of our quest for a word to describe our "ninja" climbs. I thought of five:
surreptitious
sneaky
clandestine
occult
(I can't remember the other one--not that it matters.)

So I just checked with the dictionary to see if any of them accurately describe what we're after (or, at least, what I think we're after).

SURREPTITIOUS: done, made, or acquired by stealth; clandestine

Although this is close, because it refers to "stealth," there is the concept of wrongdoing: "STEALTHY suggests taking pains to avoid being seen or heard especially in some misdoing." Oops--misdoing! Nope. So if we don't accept "ninja" and "poach," we certainly shouldn't like "stealth."

On the other hand, checking word comparisons, I found:
SURREPTITIOUS applies to action or behavior done secretly often with skillful avoidance of detection and in violation of custom, law, or authority. Ahh! Now that's pretty good (well--except for that "law" part).

SNEAKY must fall by the wayside by similar reasoning (not that I liked it anyway).

CLANDESTINE implies secrecy usually for an evil, illicit, or unauthorized purpose and often emphasizes the fear of being discovered; guess we better hadn't use that.

For OCCULT, I had in mind the "hidden from view" definition, and this actually is a good word for what we're discussing. I’d recommend it except that I fear that if we call ourselves "occult climbers," there would be those wanting to join us whose carabiners are shaped in the form of a pentagram and who would chant weird stuff from the treetops--kinda hard to be unnoticed when that's going on. Rats.

I know you're just dying to read about the other words I carefully examined in my quest, but I think I'd better stop sharing all this excitement. To wrap it up, I finally considered words meaning the opposite of what we want, to see where that would lead me. That quickly brought me to:
INCONSPICUOUS: not readily noticeable

NOTICEABLE applies to something unlikely to escape observation

Also:
CONSPICUOUS:
1: obvious to the eye or mind
2: attracting attention: STRIKING
3: marked by a noticeable violation of good taste
synonym see NOTICEABLE

CONSPICUOUS applies to something that is obvious and unavoidable to the sight or mind

So there we have it: We should call ourselves "Inconspicuous Climbers," or maybe "Unnoticeable Climbers." Does that work for you? Hmm--I thought not. Maybe "IC" or "UC?"

I give up--how about "ninja?"

WildBill, you're the wordsmith--you must have some ideas.

Originally posted by Jim W
I give up--how about "ninja?"

Seems Jim W hit the nail on the head.
After reading all the input here I think Treeman and all concerned parties should admit to the simple fact that the term “Ninja Climb” has been coined. The act of erasing it from the entire message base probably won’t change much.

Ninja Climb... It’s what you climbers must do to avoid The Nick Syndrome.
i.e. If you get spotted, your gonna get yanked.

It looks like recreational tree climbing has a paradox on its hands. On one side there is a desire for RTC to be more mainstream. On the other side... well ninja is just not mainstream. Ninja is the unseen stream. It is what it is, low profile climbing.

That said ninja does not equal poaching. The dictionary meaning of poaching isn't very helpful. My sense of the New Yorker article is that Sillet is projecting the possibility that some RTC'ers may be interested in climbing the tallest trees known. This is not unreasonable since every related field of endeavor has individuals who want to climb the highest. Clearly Sillet doesn't want one of "his" redwoods to become an Everest for RTC. Who wants the crown of a redwood littered with oxygen bottles (ok, they're not that tall).

In the case of the tallest trees mentioned in the article, they're in places where a permit is required to climb. Poaching is a fair way to describe a non-permitted climb whose goal is to essentially "take a prize" (the tallest). The ninja part is separate. Going into isolated woods on public property to climb trees in a low profile respectful way is ninja and not poaching. Intent and practice is everything.

Anway that's my attempt to define these terms, thanks for listening.

Originally posted by moss
It looks like recreational tree climbing has a paradox on its hands.

Moss,
Paradox! You are exactly right. We want it to flourish but are horrified that it may well be the demise of the sport.

Also…
Are you new here to the TCI group?
New to climbing, or by chance one of the masters?

It would be mighty nice if you could put a little bio in you profile section. Click on the PROFILE button at the bottom of my post to get an example.

Thanks!
Electrojake

I like the stealth word. It does not make a good/bad judgement. It just is saying you're doing it without being noticed.

Isn't that what we often strive for?


Oh No,....not "Nick Syndrome" !!! I don't want my name affiliated with bed things!!!! I do remember one time in NJ that an officer inquired to what I was doing. I made a post about it here. He was very understanding and seemingly interested. Something ticked off in his head that said, "this guy is no danger to himself, this tree, or the other park-goers" and he went on his way, and I headed up that cottonwood.

I want THAT to be Nick Syndrome...when you're confronted with a potential boot in the @$$, and you're able to turn it around into a good thing. Please!

Seriously, though...the thought of an overclimbed tree repulses me. I've seen too many trees that have been over trimmed by "owners" who love their trees too much and tree-guys who love $$$ too much. I would hate to see similar treatment happening on the recreational front.

A paradox indeed.

I want to go on record as saying that I don't desire for rec climbing to be mainstream. I do wish for it to be accepted.

love
nick

Originally posted by Electrojake
[Also…
Are you new here to the TCI group?
New to climbing, or by chance one of the masters?

It would be mighty nice if you could put a little bio in you profile section. Click on the PROFILE button at the bottom of my post to get an example.

Thanks!
Electrojake

Hi Electrojake,
I'm new to the forum and TCI. I'm definitely not a master or even a beginner but have spent enough time in the woods and in trees to have an idea of what the issues are that you folks are dealing with.

I've added some stuff to my profile, thanks for the welcoming words.

-moss

Nick…
Your right. Nick Syndrome sounds much too clinical. Perhaps I can re-term it as a “Nick Adventure”

Your climbing adventures are just as inspiring as your posts. I think the part that makes your contributions on the forum so exceptional is that you are sincere. Your climbs in well trafficked public areas, particularly while wearing a gas mask & sandals, are the stuff legends are made of.

I never miss any of your posts or photographs. Additionally, the “Nick Hitch” tutorial was pretty darn neat too. That’s a good looking knot you devised! It sets just as good in cord as it does in flat strapping.

I know you get busy working several other message boards. Whenever your off this board for a few days, I always know that you will return to us here at TCI with yet more amazing stories, photos, info, and best of all “Nick Adventures”.

Keep up the good work & may the adventure continue.
Electrojake

Moss,

I’m relatively new also. I came aboard late last year.
I have learned quite a bit here. Not just technical info but insight too.

Thanks for posting a bio in your profile section. Its nice to know a little about who is here on the forum.

Regards,
Electrojake

P.S. Outstanding photography on your web site, and thank you for listing the gear.