Rec TreeClimbing vs ropes courses

Am starting to work with summer camps and scout groups. One thing has come up on several occasions: I'm told the camp already has a "high" and "low" ropes course, so they think recreational tree climbing would be redundant. Does anyone have much knowledge of what these ropes courses do and how we can best compare and contrast to rec TC? Thanks!

By the way, I've just returned from Broward County, FL. Who knew I'd find good climbing trees down there; introduced the activity to some local officials. If anyone goes, check out the So. Florida slash pine - nice open canopy, very similar to my namesake Colorado ponderosa, only far more brittle, so stay close to the trunk line.

I think that often, especially with the low ones, ropes courses are designed to foster teamwork and cooperation between participants. Another big difference, I feel, is that ropes courses emphasis achievement of some sort. A goal, a touch point, something like that, whereas tree climbing doesn't necessarily have a "goal" to attain.

Josh

I spent three summers as a couselor on a challenge course. I see the two activites as extremely different. One, as has already been stated, has a specific goal and you are always pushing yourself. In treeclimbing, for me anyway, the goal is pure enjoyment...simply recreation.

That being said, I could see why a camp would shy away from a rec climbing program if they already had a high ropes course. In the camp world, it seems that diversity brings more customers. In the eyes of the administration and the customers, it might be better to invest funds in a new silver smithing shop or something like that.

So maybe you have to take the admin climbing

love
nick

The activities that take place on ROPES courses and other forms of challenge courses are generally classified as adventures in experiential education. The philosophy of experiential education embraces the idea that adventure can be utilized as a venue for teaching character-building lessons that can be transferred to other aspects of life. While recreational tree climbing is, for most of us, a leisure activity done for pure enjoyment, there exists the possibility that recreational tree climbing may be employed within an experientially educational context.

There are quite a few character-building and team-building initiatives that can be done within the realm of tree climbing. Anyone who has spent time working with a challenge course should be able to create initiatives that can be applied to recreational tree climbing.

One of the best arguments that can be used by tree climbers is that a classroom for experiential education exists wherever there is a good tree. With a good tree that has been prepped by a professional arborist there is no need for a one-hundred-thousand dollar challenge course, ROPES course, and climbing wall (This is no exaggeration: I know of an institution that spent $98,000 for a ROPES course, low initiative course, and climbing wall).

I recently wrote an article for Outdoor Ed that can be found at :www.outdoored.com
This article addresses the very issue under discussion here. Take a look at it and let's have some more conversation on this topic.

jmaher, could you post the direct link to your article? I couln't find it on the general website link.

The article can be found at: www.outdoored.com/articles/Article.asp?ArticleID=160

Thanks to everyone for their input. I now have a better idea of what these courses are about.

Joe, I wonder what it would be like to give each participant the choice of putting the slip of paper in the bucket or not, to minimize undue peer pressure. I have this image of others in the group hauling an the one unwilling climber up the tree while he's yelling "Stop!", in order to complete the task. I also have a bit of a concern about teaching the basics needed to climb without the other essentials, such as ethics, hazards, etc. Many of my venues are concerned about my intro climbers coming back to climb unsupervised on their own.

Just some thoughts.

Harv

In the article done for Outdoor Ed I related an initiative in which I had given a group of college students a pile of equipment, including all of the things that I knew they would need, and then given them the goal of delivering bits of paper to a plastic bucket placed high in a tree. In order for the bits of paper to be assembled into an entire message it would be necessary for each student to personally deliver her or his piece of paper to the bucket. The students were placed in the position of having to figure out how to get their bits of paper up to, and into, the bucket and also had to figure out how to get everyone in the group to "buy" into the problem so that all of the bits of the message would arrive at the bucket.

Harv has expressed concern that these students had not received climbing instruction prior to this event and were placed in the position of having to start "cold" from scratch. Point well taken! I would like to point out, however, that when we do a "group" climb with children, the children have not received climbing instruction either. We, that is the facilitators, have rigged the ropes, tied the knots, and are there to supervise the climb, place safety knots, and keep an eye on everyone. We send children up the rope all the time with nothing more than the knowledge of how to make the knot go up, how to remain suspended in the air by not touching the knot at all, and how to descend by pulling the knot down. The only difference between this and what the college students were doing is that the students had to figure out how to get the ropes up and tie their own systems. I was available for "consultation" and I very carefully guided the students toward the idea that they should ask me how it was best done. While they did, in fact, tie all of their own systems, I was there to check every single knot that was tied. One of the "rules" was that no one could leave the ground until the "consultant" (me) had checked out their system and given it a passing grade. This included an inspection of their entire "chain of protection." Other than tying their own systems and placing their ropes in the tree under my personal supervision, this was not different from a group climb with children. This was, in reality, nothing more than a group climb, but with a mission. This was not an instructional class, but an experiential initiative. I was not concerned about the students coming back to climb on their own; none of them had any equipment and were not about to spend their money on equipment. Money, where college students are concerned, means a party---not a tree climb!

Harv also expressed concern over the idea that everyone had to personally deliver her or his bit of paper to the bucket. What if someone had refused to go up? I had already explained to them the notion of "Challenge by Choice." As it happened this did not become a problem on this particular day. While there was peer pressure to contend with, it never reached the point of bullying. I did have a plan in place in case such a problem had developed. It would be permissible for one of the better climbers to go up to the bucket and lower it to the ground, then pull it back into the tree again after the person declining to climb had placed his or her bit of paper into the bucket. There was no "rule" that said that the bucket had to remain in the tree while the bits of paper were being placed there! I know that this would have been a case of slightly bending the rules, but I had it saved within my head in case the problem arose. I would like to reiterate that one of the expressed challenges that was put before the group was to come up with a plan that would include participation by every one in the group.

I would like to point out that this particular initiative is only one example of how a tree could be used for experiential education in place of a traditional challenge course. For any climbing facilitator with a creative mind there can be hundreds of initiatives, each geared toward a particular age group, skill group, or whatever message or life lesson is to be explored.