Is it safe to climb on a Grizzly Splice?

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6 years 11 months ago - 6 years 11 months ago #137166 by Bushwhacker
Is it safe to climb on a Grizzly Splice? was created by Bushwhacker
I probably should have asked this before I climbed on a Grizzly splice, but I just assumed that, since Grizzly bears are made of steel, well, what could possibly go wrong with making life or death decisions based on names?

Anyhow, is this setup safe? I just have my rope looped around a tree branch, and hooked together with a carabiner through the grizzly splice. The climbing weight and throw line are just there for rope retrieval.


Edit: I was just testing this rope retrieval method in this photo (it wasn't high up), which explains why the carabiner is unlocked.

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Last edit: 6 years 11 months ago by Bushwhacker.

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6 years 11 months ago - 6 years 11 months ago #137171 by Tree-D
Replied by Tree-D on topic Is it safe to climb on a Grizzly Splice?
Hey there Bushwhacker!

I'll let someone else (Moss?) comment on the splice, but I would not use a carabiner this way. Carabiners are very weak in the "fold sideways" direction. (Easier to make this happen than you might think: against a chunky part of bark, an odd shape/lump in the branch, a smaller fork, etc.) Instead of a carabiner, I would recommend a delta screw link. (Even an oval screw link is not quite as good as a delta here.) Either galvanized or stainless, as long as it's rated for over 6,000 lb. (The stainless are rated stronger for their size, but having a smaller gauge screw link is not always an advantage, because it forces the rope through a tighter bend. Personally, I prefer a larger chunky galvanized delta.)

On the plus side, screw links are even cheaper than carabiners!

I see you posted this arrangement elsewhere, I'll post this there too.
Last edit: 6 years 11 months ago by Tree-D. Reason: edit delta
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6 years 11 months ago #137207 by Bushwhacker
Replied by Bushwhacker on topic Is it safe to climb on a Grizzly Splice?

Tree-D wrote: Hey there Bushwhacker!

I'll let someone else (Moss?) comment on the splice, but I would not use a carabiner this way. Carabiners are very weak in the "fold sideways" direction. (Easier to make this happen than you might think: against a chunky part of bark, an odd shape/lump in the branch, a smaller fork, etc.) Instead of a carabiner, I would recommend a delta screw link. (Even an oval screw link is not quite as good as a delta here.) Either galvanized or stainless, as long as it's rated for over 6,000 lb. (The stainless are rated stronger for their size, but having a smaller gauge screw link is not always an advantage, because it forces the rope through a tighter bend. Personally, I prefer a larger chunky galvanized delta.)

On the plus side, screw links are even cheaper than carabiners!

I see you posted this arrangement elsewhere, I'll post this there too.


Your advice has been heeded. Thank you.


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6 years 11 months ago #137209 by moss
Replied by moss on topic Is it safe to climb on a Grizzly Splice?
That Snakebite rope sure is pretty! Yep, that sewn eye ("Grizzly splice") is safe, it is tested and rated for life support use. It's funny they call it a splice, it is not a splice, I think when it was first introduced they (Sherrill Tree) were trying to make climbers used to traditional spliced eyes feel ok about sewn eyes.

On that pull down, sometimes bark friction especially on larger diameter limbs will make it hard to get the pull down going. A few ways to address that if you find it a problem.
-AJ
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6 years 11 months ago #137212 by treeman
Replied by treeman on topic Is it safe to climb on a Grizzly Splice?
Everybody- Bushwhacker is climbing SRT here. His rope is 10mm, designed only for SRT, not DbRT- it's too stiff to hold the Blake's hitch.

About that carabiner. Is it a screw lock or double locking auto locker? If you are using manual screw locking carabiners, downgrade them to the lowly position of utility carabiners. In the old days they were all we had, and people died using them because branches rotate the lock open.

Position your pull down line behind the splice instead of inside the carabiner. That way when you pull down you get rid of a tight bend in the line. It makes the screw link run down the rope much better as you pull down. Try it on a low branch-tying the pull down line behind the splice, and see the difference. Yippee! We all love to run freely.

Treeman

Waving from a treetop,
Peter Treeman Jenkins

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6 years 11 months ago #137224 by Bushwhacker
Replied by Bushwhacker on topic Is it safe to climb on a Grizzly Splice?

treeman wrote: Everybody- Bushwhacker is climbing SRT here. His rope is 10mm, designed only for SRT, not DbRT- it's too stiff to hold the Blake's hitch.

About that carabiner. Is it a screw lock or double locking auto locker? If you are using manual screw locking carabiners, downgrade them to the lowly position of utility carabiners. In the old days they were all we had, and people died using them because branches rotate the lock open.

Position your pull down line behind the splice instead of inside the carabiner. That way when you pull down you get rid of a tight bend in the line. It makes the screw link run down the rope much better as you pull down. Try it on a low branch-tying the pull down line behind the splice, and see the difference. Yippee! We all love to run freely.

Treeman


Well I switched to the Delta as Tree-D recommended, which is a screw lock. I don't know how the accidental opening can be avoided, so hopefully I'm not taking my life in my hands.

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6 years 11 months ago #137225 by moss
Replied by moss on topic Is it safe to climb on a Grizzly Splice?
The delta screw link is double threaded and takes many turns to open to the point that a rope can escape it. A screw gate carabiner only requires a few turns to open. In work climbing auto locking carabiners are required, in rec climbing you can do what you want but it is wise to heed the words of highly experienced climbers like Treeman, tree climbers who depended on screw gate carabiners suffered too many accidents. A delta screwlink is very different than a carabiner, it can be loaded in any direction, there is no "gate", when the nut is tightened down it is very strong, completely life support quality.
-AJ

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6 years 10 months ago #137244 by Momp
Replied by Momp on topic Is it safe to climb on a Grizzly Splice?
I already have the Yale XTC Blaze rope, and im very happy with it, but im considering getting another, with an eye-splice.
Is it just as safe to attach the TIP like the one shown in the first post, with this rope?

https://honeybros.com/Item/Yale_XTC-Blaze_Rope_Eye_Spliced

Will be attached with the delta screw link.

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6 years 10 months ago #137245 by moss
Replied by moss on topic Is it safe to climb on a Grizzly Splice?

Momp wrote: I already have the Yale XTC Blaze rope, and im very happy with it, but im considering getting another, with an eye-splice.
Is it just as safe to attach the TIP like the one shown in the first post, with this rope?

https://honeybros.com/Item/Yale_XTC-Blaze_Rope_Eye_Spliced

Will be attached with the delta screw link.


That attachment is fine but not my favorite attachment for a cinched anchor. It is safe assuming everything else is good (the branch/limb and tree) ;-)
-AJ
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6 years 10 months ago #137246 by Momp
Replied by Momp on topic Is it safe to climb on a Grizzly Splice?
Thanks for the reply!

Hehe, of course everything else would be safe :)

So, what is your favorite method for the cinched anchor?

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6 years 10 months ago - 6 years 10 months ago #137248 by moss
Replied by moss on topic Is it safe to climb on a Grizzly Splice?

Momp wrote: Thanks for the reply!

Hehe, of course everything else would be safe :)

So, what is your favorite method for the cinched anchor?


I like a Running Bowline with a Yosemite Tie-off, and I add a double overhand to lock off the tail after the Yosemite finish. I like it because no hardware involved. People will comment that "rope on rope" is not good but that's not quite correct, moving rope against rope is not good. In a static tie-off with a Running Bowline the rope is not moving while the climber is on rope.

Many climbers use a delta screwlink as part of a cinched or choked SRT anchor, it's a good option. The favorite of many experienced rec climbers is a Figure 8 on a Bight tied midline, the screwlink delta is attached to th F8, the delta captures the running leg of the rope which is pulled to tighten the cinch.

Typically a climber will leave enough tail from the F8 on a Bight to reach the ground so they have a built in pull down on the cinched anchor. So if the anchor limb is approx. 60' you'd leave at least 60' of tail after the F8. Many work climbers do something similar, their favorite is a midline Alpine Butterfly instead of the F8 on a Bight.

You might ask "why a pulldown"? When you're installing a cinched anchor it's very easy to hang up the delta or running knot while you're pulling it up. On an oak species for example a very small branch or stub can catch the cinch going up and you won't be able to break it free from the ground and you won't want to climb on it either.

Throwline or cord can be used as a pull down but get ready for challenge in some cases, there can be quite a bit of friction around a limb and a thin cord can really beat up your hands when you put some serious force on it.

The deal with spliced eyes on climbing ropes is that the use evolved around climbing on eye-2-eye split tails DRT. Climbers anchored the static leg of their DRT rope to their harness with a hitch or knot on a carabiner. Often that knot will prevent the hitch from grabbing. The solution was to use a spliced eye instead of a knot, the lower profile of a spliced eye is much less likely to prevent the hitch from grabbing.

So a spliced or sewn eye can be used to hold a running/cinched SRT anchor but it was not the original intended use.
-AJ
Last edit: 6 years 10 months ago by moss.
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