Sterling HTP 9mm

I know I asked a similar question before, but would it be ill-advised to climb on Sterling HTP 9mm? I know it's a little bit scarier than 10mm, and it stretches a little bit more, but is it safe?

I'm pretty sure that 5170lb breaking strength is below the ANSI limit.
HTP isn't a DRT rope.
And it's too small for most of the SRT hardware that I am aware of.
So... climb how? I'm thinking no.

We're going to have to change your login from Bushwhacker to EnvelopePusher!

For what it's worth... this guy apparently uses it:
http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=1784#detail
But I don't know him.
Maybe he's really experienced and knows all the pros/cons?
Or maybe he's working on the edge of safety?
Or maybe I'm overly cautious?
Or maybe the reality is a combination of all those?

Just be careful of believing something is ok because someone on the internet agrees with you. You can ALWAYS find "someone on the internet" who agrees with anything.

But you would say that 10mm is safe, right? I would presume it is, since it's one of the few ropes reviewed here.

I think a lot of people climb SRT on 10mm HTP! SherrillTree sells it in gorgeous "SnakeBite" patterns.

I don't personally use 10mm, because it is too small for the Petzl Rig*, which is rated for 10.5mm to 11.5mm, so I climb SRT on 11mm HTP. So the real question is not "Is it safe," but "Is it safe if I use it in this specific way with these specific tools?"

*Note: yes, there are people who use the SnakeBite in Petzl Rig's, but I don't. (See "overly cautious" comment below, as well as my wariness of "someone on the internet.")

There is nothing scary about Sterling HTP 10mm.

These questions can't be answered without context. What climbing technique or techniques are you planning to use? How much experience do you have climbing trees with a rope and harness? Do you currently own a tree climbing rope?

Before you pare your tree gear set down to the absolute minimum you need experience climbing trees with "normal" spec gear. You can't shave to ultra minimal without knowledge of the discipline. This is true for any technical endeavor.
-AJ

Not to go on a tirade against obsessive minimalism but...

I have climbed in very challenging conditions with extreme minimalist climbers. What is most notable about that approach to tree climbing is there is no wiggle room. When things go wrong, and they will most certainly go wrong, the extreme minimalist has much less to work with to respond. A very experienced minimalist climber can still be every challenged. An inexperienced tree climber going with an ultra minimalist approach can find themselves way over their head in an instant. Without experience climbing with well accepted gear and technique, it's impossible to understand how difficult things can get in a tree. And without that experience a new climber does not yet have the mental tools and experiential resources to respond effectively.
-AJ

The climber who reviewed the 9mm HTP on treeStuff.com is likely a highly experienced professional climber. This is not their first rope, they have likely owned 1/2", 13mm, 11mm, and 10mm before the 9mm rope. They are choosing the 9mm for a very specific reason and have significant experience in trees on rope to understand how to use the rope safely.

For myself, I would not be happy using a toothed ascender on 9mm. In a shock load scenario, say a partial blowout on your TIP (this is not a rare occurrence), the cover will strip and you'll be hanging on the core wondering what to do next. Hopefully you wore diapers and are highly skilled at self-rescue off a stripped cover kernmantle rope!
-AJ

moss wrote: I have climbed in very challenging conditions with extreme minimalist climbers. What is most notable about that approach to tree climbing is there is no wiggle room. When things go wrong, and they will most certainly go wrong, the extreme minimalist has much less to work with to respond. A very experienced minimalist climber can still be every challenged. An inexperienced tree climber going with an ultra minimalist approach can find themselves way over their head in an instant. Without experience climbing with well accepted gear and technique, it's impossible to understand how difficult things can get in a tree. And without that experience a new climber does not yet have the mental tools and experiential resources to respond effectively.
-AJ

Thanks Moss. I'll go with the 10mm then.

I think Moss' first response is important to consider, because even 10mm can't be recommended without context.

moss wrote: There is nothing scary about Sterling HTP 10mm.

These questions can't be answered without context. What climbing technique or techniques are you planning to use? How much experience do you have climbing trees with a rope and harness? Do you currently own a tree climbing rope?

Before you pare your tree gear set down to the absolute minimum you need experience climbing trees with "normal" spec gear. You can't shave to ultra minimal without knowledge of the discipline. This is true for any technical endeavor.
-AJ

You're absolutely right Tree-D (& of course Moss).

Climbing technique: SRT basic RADS with grigri, petzl ascension, and maybe a petzl pantin.
Experience: Close to none
I don't have rope right now, which is why I'm so desperate to get some soon.

The Grigri is optimized for 9.4-10.3mm, so I think it's probably best to stick with that (and I'll also be less tempted to buy 9mm later on).

Hey Bushwhacker, Are you planning to attend the 2014 Tree Climbers Rendezvous? If you can make it, you'll find yourself among a crowd of wonderful people, and you'll have the opportunity to see all kinds of systems, and get up into the trees! If you can make it, I think you'll have a blast!

dogwood wrote: Hey Bushwhacker, Are you planning to attend the 2014 Tree Climbers Rendezvous? If you can make it, you'll find yourself among a crowd of wonderful people, and you'll have the opportunity to see all kinds of systems, and get up into the trees! If you can make it, I think you'll have a blast!

Unfortunately I don't think I can make it, since it's too far away. Thanks for the invite though, and I hope you enjoy it!

I personally would not climb on anything smaller than 11mm.
The higher you get off the ground the rope seems smaller than it is
Hanging in space 30+ m off the ground even 11mm seems too small sometimes
There is enough limit pushing in climbing, I won't push it with gear. If I think I'll need the kitchen sink on a
climb, I'll find a place on my harness for it

For a beginning climber it makes tremendous sense to start with a semi-static 11mm rope. Ropes like Bandit, Blaze or Velocity are very light and can be used SRT or DRT. It's nice to be able to to tie-in DRT with a Blake's Hitch when you want the option. You can climb with only a rope, one carabiner and a harness. That is very minimal. You can't do that on a static kernmantle rope like Sterling HTP, minimum bend radius is too wide, a Blake's Hitch won't work.
-AJ