minimalist kit

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13 years 5 months ago #135166 by mrand
minimalist kit was created by mrand
Hi,
i've been climbing for about a year and a half. Trained with Peter (of course!)

I'm needing to setup a minimalist kit for some remote situations I'll be in.
Right now I climb with PIvy DRT. I also use ascenders from time to time. I've tried split tail and enjoy that also.

I love Peters technique for simplicity. It just works.

So my question, if I was to setup a minimalist kit. What recommendations do you have for rope and split tail?

note: if I climb split tail I can bring less rope send it up with a running bowline as opposed to needing twice the line for the loop. my beeline has not performed well on poison ivy b/c P.I is so supple and the beeline tends to bind up.

so I want to be safe, but I also want the thinnest climbing rope possible within reason and an appropriate recommendation for split tail. I'll be packing other gear in and just can't take the typical haul of climbing gear. Poison Ivy is huge. and heavy.

thanks so much
Michael

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13 years 5 months ago #135167 by mrand
Replied by mrand on topic Re: minimalist kit
as a followup. would it be lighter to go with an ascender system which would allow me to use a thinner rope?

I have petzel ascenders but what about something like this:
http://www.karstsports.com/kofuas.html

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13 years 5 months ago #135168 by mrand
Replied by mrand on topic Re: minimalist kit
backed up of course with a split tail which I would also probably descend on

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13 years 5 months ago #135169 by greenluck
Replied by greenluck on topic Re: minimalist kit
Doesn't get much more simple than the traditional double rope climbing system with a 2/4 blakes. If you want a split tail set up, then a short section of the same rope will work.

1 locking carb.
1 rope
1 harness
1 rope sleeve
1 helmet

Blaze, velocity and fly are all light weight ropes to consider. You can also use your ascenders with this rope.

If you go SRT you could potential get by with less rope and a med. length length lanyard or second rope to move about. SRT up, then use the lanyard or second short (20'-50') rope to set up a double rope system to move about or work in.

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13 years 5 months ago #135170 by mrand
Replied by mrand on topic Re: minimalist kit
thanks for the reply. good info and ideas there.
if you had to choose blaze velocity or fly for my intended purpose. which one and why?

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13 years 5 months ago #135171 by moss
Replied by moss on topic Re:minimalist kit
mrand wrote:

note: if I climb split tail I can bring less rope send it up with a running bowline as opposed to needing twice the line for the loop. my beeline has not performed well on poison ivy b/c P.I is so supple and the beeline tends to bind up.


It's not clear to me, are you referring to climbing SRT here? You mentioned using a Running Bowline which suggests SRT.

If so, using a hitch only for SRT doesn't work very well, hitch binds and then fails to grab well when you do release it (on descent).

If the 8mm Beeline split tail binds PI for DRT climbing it is likely a problem with the hitch you are using not the PI. For example if you are tying a Blake's with 8mm cord on 11.6mm PI it's very likely to bind because of the mismatch in diameters between the Beeline and PI.
-AJ

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13 years 5 months ago #135172 by greenluck
Replied by greenluck on topic Re: minimalist kit
My personal preference would be Blaze. It is just a great all around rope. Rarely does it ever get bad reviews and it lasts forever. Since it has been out for a while, the price is fairly reasonable.

If weight is the biggest concern then velocity is the lightest choice.

Many rock climbing ropes are lighter and smaller but should not be used for double rope tech. They just can't stand up to the friction along with the wear and tear of moving over the branch.

These thin lightweight rock climbing ropes could be used for SRT though since the rope does not run over the branch. A rope with less stretch would be a desirable trait for SRT.

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13 years 5 months ago #135173 by moss
Replied by moss on topic Re: minimalist kit
mrand wrote:

thanks for the reply. good info and ideas there.
if you had to choose blaze velocity or fly for my intended purpose. which one and why?


Agree that PI is a very heavy rope, I've even demoted it from use as a lanyard, even a 15' length is too heavy compared to Bandit for example. Assuming you are looking for a dual purpose DRT/SRT rope Blaze (or the green/black color variant Bandit which I prefer) is an excellent choice. It's a nice balance of relatively low stretch, light weight, holds a Blake's well tied into itself, works well with mechanical devices and hitch cords, is reasonable to grip. Fly is easier to grip but is too bouncy for my taste SRT and is heaviest of the 3 mentioned for a minimalist expedition rope. Velocity is the skinniest to grip if that's an issue, I've heard it's very bouncy SRT but haven't climbed it SRT myself. For any of the ropes mentioned I recommend using Atlas grippy rubber palmed gloves or something similar to reduce hand and forearm/elbow strain over time.
-AJ

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13 years 5 months ago #135174 by michaeljspraggon
Replied by michaeljspraggon on topic Re: minimalist kit


Here is my minimalist split tail rig. The blue biner is the central attachment point. It is clipped into an overhand knot on a long bight, which allows the whole system to twist if required (no Petzl swivel required).

From the knot emerge left hand and right hand Blakes Hitches for adjustment of each side of the tail. For one handed slack-tending, the rope passes through pear shaped screwlinks by each Blakes Hitch, which are clipped into part of the overhand knot - no pulleys required. The hitches advance easily and are more compact and easier to set up correctly than Valdotain Tresses.

In the centre between each side is the central 30ft the tail. It is 9mm dynamic rope (I climb tall conifers with this and there are times when there is a limited amount of slack in the system so dynamic rope is safer)

The whole thing weighs 2.2 pounds and clips together into a bundle 16 inches long and 4 inches wide.

Michael
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13 years 5 months ago #135175 by michaeljspraggon
Replied by michaeljspraggon on topic Re: minimalist kit
Notice on the first picture how I've colour-coded left and righthand sides with Yellow and Red tags on the Blakes Hitches and coloured Biner gates to match.

Anyway, here it is clipped up and ready for transportation on my harness for the SRT ascent.



I welcome any comments as we've all got things to learn from each other!

Michael
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13 years 5 months ago #135176 by michaeljspraggon
Replied by michaeljspraggon on topic Re: minimalist kit
mrand wrote:

as a followup. would it be lighter to go with an ascender system which would allow me to use a thinner rope?

I have petzel ascenders but what about something like this:
http://www.karstsports.com/kofuas.html


I too have looked at the Kong Futura ascender. While it certainly is original thinking, I'm concerned about the forces on your fingers. The reason why conventional handled ascenders work so well is partly because the fist is tilted off vertical. To understand what I mean, try doing a pull-up on a horizontal bar. Easy isn't it? Now try gripping a vertical pole (like a fireman's pole) and doing the same. What I think might happen is that there will be a lot of sideways force on the forefinger and little finger, causing pressure sores on these fingers and uncomfortable force on the joints for long ascents.

That said, it could be a breakthrough for mountaineers, where rope ascents are short and sporadic and where weight saving is critical.

Michael

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13 years 5 months ago #135177 by mrand
Replied by mrand on topic Re:minimalist kit
hey Moss,
sorry for confusion. I was saying that normally I use a cambium and climb DRT-with the rope sliding through....typically DRT technique.

To save space, I'll probably bring half the rope. use a running bowline and have single line down from one branch. To further save space, I don't want to bring ascenders so I'll probably climb splittail

you saying thats a mistake?

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13 years 5 months ago #135178 by mrand
Replied by mrand on topic Re: minimalist kit
thanks for all these thoughts and ideas. great stuff!!
- michael

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13 years 5 months ago #135180 by mrand
Replied by mrand on topic Re:minimalist kit
and one more question for you guys.
I use a pantin foot ascender typically. I'll be in a tropical location so I can't wear my boots.
the pantin is quite uncomfortable with shoes..doesn't stay tight and likes to dig into the ankles

I'm at a loss. I don't really want to do a prussik footloop

maybe considering a bungee cord technique that pulls a footascender up...and keep the pantin loosely tied

not really sure the best thing to do here

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13 years 5 months ago #135181 by michaeljspraggon
Replied by michaeljspraggon on topic Re:minimalist kit
I know what you mean about Pantins digging into you ankles. If you can't wear ankle length boots then try padding out the Pantin with some dense foam (for example from a foam sleeping mat). I'm not sure how you would fix it yet but I'll think about it later and get back to you.

Michael

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