Mini-traxion Pro-traxion Pulleys

I was reading another web site and one person describes a set up using the the Mini-traxion in an SRT set up (similar to a RADS-set up) instead of Grigri.
Any experiences and is this piece of gear stong enough to hold an avarage weight person (about 200 lbs).
The Mini is rated at 20kN the Pro-Traxion is rated at 22kN instead of 23kN that is almost 4950lbs as required by ANSI and ISA for workers in trees.

I have seen it used for hauling loads of gear up a tree but was not sure what other Rec Climbers have used them for.
Just Curious.

Link to specs:
http://en.petzl.com/ProduitsServices/P07_minitrax_P07600-F_W.pdf

Using them instead of the Grigri in RADS? That sounds like a really bad idea to me. I have the mini, and it is a nice piece of gear. Add a swivel and it is great for hauling heavy nest boxes and platforms up. That being said, it wasn't designed to haul a person. I'm pretty sure that even say so, except as a secondary chest ascender. I don't have the specs in front of me, but from my recollection it has a breaking strength of 4kN when used as a self-jamming pulley. So, the pulley won't break, but the cam might not hold over 4kN of force, which isn't enough of a margin for me.

I went back to the source and read over the comments of other Arborists and apparently there is nothing wrong with the set up as posted on their site.
It appears to me that the margin for error is limited but if he is happy with his gear set up, I am not in a position to tell a grown man how to run his life.
He does this stuff for living ... you know.

I was intrigued by the way all kinds of climbers try new ideas and uses for gear and some of them do not seen correct to us \"Basic\" Rec Climbers but this set up is actually posted with the instruction on the PETZL literature for rock climbing.
If you want to read more about it go to their site and read the complete posting under SRT rig. http://www.treeworld.info/f15/srt-rig-1599.html

Thanks for posting a link to the setup.

I'm not here to tell anyone what to do. I agree the people can do whatever they want, especially professionals. They probably have a better idea of the risk than I do, but I think everyone needs to evaluate the risk for themselves. I've seen pros do a number of things I wouldn't do -- such as be untied at height. But people come here looking for advice and ideas. My comment was posted to let other \"basic\" rec climbers, such as myself , that were thinking of trying this setup that the numbers given were not entirely accurate. They need to know the true margin of safety (20kN vs 4kN) before they decide to try it out. I wouldn't use the mini in that setup, which is slightly different than I imagined, but it looks like it is still using the mini with 4kN breaking strength (self-jamming pulley mode) as the primary life support attachment.

Also this setup is *NOT* printed with the petzl literature. The illustration in the Petzl specs for rock climbing has one big difference that makes that setup safe -- a handled ascender strapped to the saddle. That gives a full strength attachment regardless of the mini. I've attached the specs with illustrations from Petzl for those interested.

Okay, I can't attach a .pdf, so here's a link

I just wanted to clarify that when I said it was not posted with the petzl literature, I was referring to the literature that came with the device. There are people out there who claim Petzl approved it for SRT, but the only thing I saw was when it was used with a handled ascender.

The discussion on tree world also touches on the \"unlikely to dynamically load\" the device when used in this fashion. True, which is why it works, but that is true of all ascending devices when used in most SRT configurations, and standards still require a higher strength for life safety because of that off chance you do dynamically load it.

Thanks again to Oldtimer for pointing this out. I think his query about the self jamming pulley breaking strength on tree world even got the pros thinking a little more about the specs of the device and having a back up.

Hey, that is how we learn. When in dough check back the literature provided by the Manufacturer before we start a firestorm. Some of those guys are very defensive of their ideas and gear use techniques and get testy when you question them so I am careful when I post something no need to get and all out flame out going since I really like most of eh poster because they answer most of my questions on tree maintenance and other realted stuff.

That set up is very interesting. I think if I had a MT I would play around with it like that. I am not a fan of the Tribloc but it would be easy to swap out a different piece of gear. I would also feel much better about having a second attachment point... again easily solved. I have no experience with the MT, but it looks cool. Oldtimer, do you have a MT? If you have you tried a similar setup?

I do not have either of those tools and I am not inclined to buy them either. The Tribloc has a bad reputation of destroying ropes so I passed on that one a while back and the Minitraxion Pulley is not something I would use in my short trees. I usually read about all these ideas in other Web board and pass them along for others to try or to see what experiences they have encounterd if any.

I would be reluctant to use either MT for climbing. Great kit for hauling if you do a lot or need something more effecient than a Munter or a prusik minding pulley setup.

There are LOTS of alternative tools to use as a chest ascender that are designed to be used in this fashion. If there were no other tools available to do a very specific task I would, and have, considered using them after lots of considerations. In this case I would use an Eddy, GriGri, I'd or Cinch before the MT.

It is really sad to hear the friction between pro/rec climbers. Over the years I'vve sure benefited from the insights that rec climbers bring into the trees. My biases have sometimes kept my blinders a little to narrow. There has also been way too much rec/pro friction too. Both sad to see

Hey Tom, Welcomed back. I saw that set up used by an Arborist on a daily basics and was surprised that the others indicated that it was cool to use and actually meet their Standards.
It appears to me that the heavier duty ProTraxion may be Ok but like you say there are safer alternatives to do the job hopefully with a larger degree of safety.

Edited: Tom, I am planning to go to see you guys competing at Fort Worth 4 and 5 next month. I will try to drop by and say hello! Maybe, I can peak at your SRT Class!

One thing that I always struggle with is using equipment in a way that it was not intended to be used. The MT was not ment to be used that way, but that doesnt mean that you cant find new uses. This paticular use looks to have many better options, but it could spur some different ideas that can be used safely and efficiently. I still feel that with some changes that system shown could be used safely, but I dont see how it could be use efficiently. I have to agree with Tom about the pro\rec thing. I know that I have learned so much about SRT from rec climbers. Besides seeing Tom do acouple of his SRT seminars and reading On Rope, all of my real world techniques came from rec climbers. Just because someone is a \"pro\" doesnt mean they know more than a \"rec\" climber. Sorry got a bit off topic...... does anyone know of other uses people are finding for MT in their climbing systems? I am interested to see if this tool gets much use in the tree climbing world.

I think you could replace the grigri with the minitraxion, but then you would lose the real beautiful aspect of this system: the built-in rappel that the grigri provides. By removing the top ascender you're all set to go down if necessary. So for the same price I'd keep the grigri and concern myself with using the traxion in hauling loads up to the campsite.