Black conduit House sleeves problem

I really want to like the Su sleeve variant of the traditional Dan House sleeve. This is the black conduit sleeve that's very flexible. Unfortunately I've worn through 3 of them in 2 months. The black plastic is wearing through in the middle part of the sleeve. I've tried taping the worn areas but it reduces the flexibility and transfers stress to the untaped parts of the sleeve. I'm back to using my traditional gray House style conduit sleeves which seem to be indestructible.

Anyone else experiencing rapid wear on their black House sleeves? Or am I the only one who is beating them up? I posted a gear review to shed light on this problem.
-moss

Moss,

I don't climb nearly as often as you do, but I've worn out one of my two Su sleeves in the past year, and the other one's a bit iffy. I thought at first that it was just because I had used the thing for one of my \"cryogenic\" climbs last winter - the plastic housing cracked then, but after that the metal conduit seemed to be breaking down even with electric tape repairs. I love the tight bending radius and the ease of installation, but this wear issue has me worried. If the sleeve fails during a climb it seems as though it could eat a rope.

markf12 wrote:

...this wear issue has me worried. If the sleeve fails during a climb it seems as though it could eat a rope.

The good news is that the wear is incremental. First sign of wear is a roughed up surface, then deeper scratches and cracks, then you can barely see the steel conduit showing through and finally the plastic jacket really opens up and the steel coils start to separate.

I didn't inspect one of my sleeves well enough and I found (after the climb) that the coils were starting to separate during a climb. No rope damage occurred.

Pre-climb inspection is key. If the sleeve cover is solidly intact before the climb you're good to go.
-moss

So are we back the leathers? The bomber House Sleeve is sooooo heavy and cumbersome. We have been using leather sleeves at the school for years now with little failure. I tie a bit of throw line around the sleeve and clip it to my saddle with a carabiner. It works for me.

treeman wrote:

So are we back the leathers? The bomber House Sleeve is sooooo heavy and cumbersome. We have been using leather sleeves at the school for years now with little failure. I tie a bit of throw line around the sleeve and clip it to my saddle with a carabiner. It works for me.

I think it depends on your climbing style and how you use the black sleeve. If you put one on your lanyard it will probably last longer than one used on a 150' rope. If you're going on a long hike to the tree and you're minimizing gear weight then maybe it's worth the durability trade-off.
-moss

treeman wrote:

We have been using leather sleeves at the school for years now with little failure. . . It works for me.

Product Development. . .
The test of time shows what products will surface as the most trouble-free.

I still carry a House Sleeve in the gear bag.
In a narrow-V crotch it does provide the most robust mechanical protection.
But yes Mr. Treeman, the leather sleeves work great and have taken first place for rope protection and durability. They last a long time, can handle an occasional splash of 2-stroke fuel and they sure hurt a lot less than a House Sleeve if by chance your get bonked with one during a rope removal.

As for the Su Sleeve. . .
While obviously not as durable as leather, the Su Sleeve is so “high-tech” that I have one in my gear bag for effect. It kind of has that Panasonic Robot look. The Su Sleeve that I have is a little too tight for the ½ inch line I use but as I understand it, they now have a larger diameter version for fat-rope junkies such as me.

-Ej-

I was reading this old post after inspecting my small diameter friction savers to see how they are doing. I have a question that was not answered in the previous postings.

Is the material used by Elliot the same as the one used by Treetramp?

My two sleves made by Treetramp are in perfect condition after one year of use. The only thing that I have done is replace the tape covering the end caps but the material appears in good shape. FYI: I never drop the sleve from the tree since it is always lowered by riding the rope down and then I remove the rest of the rope from the TIP. I do not know if that makes a difference from what others climbers are doing or if the problem Moss described is related to the material that Elliot used (that appears to me to be different to the one used by Treetramp.)

I hope either one of them will post something or contact me by private message if they prefer that way.

I've had wear problems with sleeves from Elliot and New Tribe (black House sleeves). I can't see any difference in the exterior vinyl material, I believe they are the same spec. Since many of you are not having wear problems it may be that I'm being too aggressive with them. Treetramp has sent me some black sleeves to test, I will observe closely how my use effects wear.

I really like the black sleeves and continue to use them. My current strategy is that when I'm running a group climb I use the indestructible gray House sleeves. When I'm climbing on my own I use the black sleeves to take advantage of their light weight and portability.

The wear occurs when the sleeve is on the branch, the vinyl is abraded and eventually breaks down over many climbs. Dropping the sleeves to the ground doesn't seem to cause any problem. In other words it is a friction wear issue not an impact problem.
-moss

The material that I saw in the Su sleves in Colorado was different than that one I got from Dan from his first batch. That material was more flexible and plastic like than that one my sleves are made out. I think that may be the problem that you are having with your sleves. The new material that Elliot used on the second batch is different than the one he had in Oregon the first time I saw his sleves.
I wish any of those guys would shed some light into this mistery!

Sorry for the delay in response but I needed to inspect as many black jacket conduits as I could.

All of the ultra-flexible conduits are covered with a black vinyl (PVC) with a vacuum forming process.

Of all of the sleeves I could inspect, the specification numbers were only visable on two. Each had the same numbers and they felt a little \"looser\" than a third one; a fourth had no number and felt \"tight\".

My conclusion is that all PVC is the same and the black vinyl jacket will soften with use.

Hope this helps,
Dan

I know this thread about conduit rope sleeves is old, but I've only just noticed it (I've not been keeping up with the forums, I must admit).

I want to remind everyone that you can buy the conduit from McMaster-Carr (PN: 8069K13 and called \"Ultra-Flex\" within the \"Liquid Tight Flexible Metal Conduit\" category) very inexpensively (currently $1.93/foot). When your sleeve starts to show some wear, simply remove the endcaps and screw them into a new length of conduit. I like to put some colored gaffers tape around the lip of the endcap so that the black sleeves are more visible and I can see how they are positioned. I have sleeves in a few lengths and use a different color tape for each length so that I can grab what I want more easily.

For those who'd like to get a hold of some endcaps, I've listed here (on my terribly out-of-date Flickr site) where you can get the endcaps, too.

eriebuoy wrote:

I know this thread about conduit rope sleeves is old, but I've only just noticed it (I've not been keeping up with the forums, I must admit).

I want to remind everyone that you can buy the conduit from McMaster-Carr (PN: 8069K13 and called \"Ultra-Flex\" within the \"Liquid Tight Flexible Metal Conduit\" category) very inexpensively (currently $1.93/foot). When your sleeve starts to show some wear, simply remove the endcaps and screw them into a new length of conduit. I like to put some colored gaffers tape around the lip of the endcap so that the black sleeves are more visible and I can see how they are positioned. I have sleeves in a few lengths and use a different color tape for each length so that I can grab what I want more easily.

For those who'd like to get a hold of some endcaps, I've listed here (on my terribly out-of-date Flickr site) where you can get the endcaps, too.

A belated thanks for doing the research and posting the links. I really like the qualities of the ultra flex black conduit despite the fact that it wears quickly (compared to the heavier-duty gray conduit). I just ordered 20 ft. and will swap out the endcap/ferrules from my current sleeves when they wear out.

Hey Erie! If you're listening, are going to attend the Bob Wray/Blue Ridge get together in North Carolina in late April? Check out the Announcements forum for more info.
-moss

Hello Eriebuoy;
McMaster-Carr (PN: 8069K13 and called \"Ultra-Flex\" within the \"Liquid Tight Flexible _meta_l Conduit\" category) very inexpensively (currently $1.93/foot).

Did you happen to locate in the same catalog the metalic end caps? I was looking around but was not able to find them.
Any helpers there? I would like to make a few small diameter (for 1/2 inch ropes) friction savers for me and a couple of climbing friends. My current F-saver supplier has not replied to my e-mails inquires. ;-((Sad) (Hint, Hint-treetramp.)

If you are interested on this project let me know and we can split the end caps since you have to buy 100 per box and I only need about 20 or so. Or maybe I can buy more \"Ultra-flexible\" conduit and make more of them since New Tribe does not carry them anymore.

The original Inventor and Master Friction Saver maker has not been around the boards lately but his are the best I have seen and they are durable enough for me.

Any other \"hose\" will not work because they melt with the friction generated by the rope. So Michael's Idea of the \"Shower Hose\" will not work because it is too light weight to stay in shape under the heavy weight of the climber.

Hi. Sorry to butt in on your discussions. I need something similar for my climbing in England. The conduit looks like shower hose. Is that the case or does it need to be more rigid so that it holds its curved shape and doesn't get dragged off the branch when you pull the rope through?

(I going to order some from a trade supplier over here - possibly this week)

Thanks,
Michael

Oldtimer -- I haven't found the endcaps in McMaster-Carr. The official name for that part is a \" ground cone \" and it's a part of a fitting for liquid-tight conduit called a \"Liquid Tight Connector Assembly (T&B Part #5333). Since I can't use 100 of them, what I do is go to my local electrician supply store that carries Thomas and Betts and buy the whole fitting (~$4.00) and take out the ground cone and throw the rest of it in my junk drawer.

However, if we could find enough takers within the rec-TC community (via this forum and others) I'd be happy to buy a bag of 100 and send them to people for only the cost of the parts and shipping. I've gotten a lot out of reading the very good information shared by the community and would be delighted to have a way to return the favor.

I wonder how many would be interested? If the minimum order is 4 cones, we'd need 20 people to make it worth doing (I don't mind keeping a few).