The "are your ascenders backed up?" question

What's the deal on climbing SRT with two separate ascenders, each ascender attached to the saddle. I'm talking about a minimal SRT "inchworm" rig essentially what New Tribe describes here:
New Tribe ascender straps

I periodically have someone who's (very nicely) concerned for my safety recommending that I put a prusik above my top ascender as additional backup. This related to the discussion we had about Sherrill's recommendation about adding a backup a while back. My understanding is that one ascender is backing up the other in this system. Any chance this can be put to rest?

For those of you SRTing with a setup similar or the same as the New Tribe system, how many of you add a prusik backup to the ascenders?
Thanks!
-moss

i use a prussick above my handled ascenders. tie it directly to the tophole int he my JUAMRS. works great, never binds as you push up the jumar. have'nt been able to load them yet, cuz my ropes have'nt broken or the ascnder has'nt slipped yet!

I put a VT clipped to the top hole of my upper ascender. I test it occasionally my just locking the cam back and basically falling into the rope...it always holds.

When I get to the top, the ascenders come off, but the VT stays on becomes my DRT friction hitch. I think it works smooth enough.

love
nick

I don't add a prusik above my ascender. Not that I'm against it either. Nothing wrong with taking all available safety measures.

A mechanical ascender though should theoretically be just as safe as a friction hitch, or it wouldn't be a good idea to use a mechanical ascender. Both of them could fail.

The new tribe setup is nice, although there's a couple things I don't like about it. It's quite pricey. If you subtract the price of the petzl ascensions, you're paying about 80 bucks for some sewn webbing and a screw link.

I can't tell in the picture, but the foot straps don't look like they're adjustable. Also, the harness strap that runs to the top and bottom ascender are the same length. I use a petzl lanyard that has a shorter and longer strap, so that if the top ascender did fail, the shock load on the bottom ascender would be much less. Also the lanyard has some shock absorption, so that some of the stiching tears away under a heavy shock.

The new tribe system has the ascenders permanently sewn on. Another downside. I can pop my ascenders off the lanyard and use the lanyard to anchor to a sewn runner thrown over a branch. The petzl ascenders can be used in a pulley system and other creative uses, so I wouldn't want them permanently attached like that.

Originally posted by NickfromWI
I put a VT clipped to the top hole of my upper ascender. I test it occasionally my just locking the cam back and basically falling into the rope...it always holds.

When I get to the top, the ascenders come off, but the VT stays on becomes my DRT friction hitch. I think it works smooth enough.

I like that, very minimal, effective and dual purpose.

Not intending to trigger a critique of the New Tribe ascender straps, I use their footloop only (not adjustable) which works very well for me. Their gear is very well made.

The Petzl lanyard that Coonrad mentioned sounds interesting, can you point to it via URL or describe it by name or part number?

Thanks,
-moss

The Newtribe straps look to be girth hitched on.

I think that's a fair deal for the straps and the quick link. Maybe I should see how much i'd charge to splice up a similar setup!

I don't like the petzl Ascension, though. They just seem flimsy to me.

I think I abuse my friction hitch in this setup. When I'm ascending through brush, I go full steam ahead sometimes, thinking the hitch will sorta clear a patch for the ascenders...keeping the teeth clear so they can do their job. Then when I get to the top, if needed, I'll clear out any debris from the hitch before I proceed.

Moss- getting back to your original question, I'd have no qualms about climbing on the shown system with no back up. You already have 2 ascenders in this system. I back mine up because there is nothing connecting my lower ascenders to my harness, so if the top slipped, I'd be in a whole mess of trouble...and probably dangling from my ankles!

...but with your setup, it seems there's a back up built in to it. That said, knowing the friction hitch is going to go on anyways, I'd probably put it on at the bottom before I go up.

Whattya think?

love
nick

Originally posted by NickfromWI
...but with your setup, it seems there's a back up built in to it. That said, knowing the friction hitch is going to go on anyways, I'd probably put it on at the bottom before I go up.

Whattya think?

Yep, I like it except if my static line is anchored at the base of the tree then I'll be switching to a second rope so I'd need to take the hitch off and move it to the DdRT rope. Not a big deal though.

The Ascensions feel solid enough to me but then again I've never tried more heavy duty ascenders.
-moss

I use a different set up for my SRT ascenders. I use dynema loops connected in a similar way (girth hitched) as the New Tribe set up. This allows for the foot loops to be 36 inches long which is better than the "one size fits all". The upper loops are 24 inches long. The dynema loops are rated at 22kN. I can remove any of the loops and replace them individually as they wear up. I get the loops from REI at a very reasonable cost. So far I am happy with this set and there are not extra pieces of metal making noise or damaging the ascenders holes.

FYI: We had a long and hot discussion about this topic last year ---> search the archives for details

The Petzl lanyard that Coonrad mentioned sounds interesting, can you point to it via URL or describe it by name or part number?

Moss, here's a link for the petzl "Spelegyca."

http://www.onrope1.com/index.php?mode=store&submode=showitem&itemnumber=c44

Not included is a rapide for attaching to harness and two
locking biners for each end of the lanyard.

I use the New Tribe system. I don't have a problem with the length of the foot loops, but for me it would be nice if the strap that connects the top ascender to my delta was longer. Oh well.
I don't use a knot above the top ascender. In general I like the whole "belt and suspenders" thing, but I don't think it is needed in this case because both of the ascenders are attached to my delta. If one fails, I'm still going to be attached to the other one at my waist.

One change I have recently made is to put safety (slip) knots in the rope as I am SRT climbing. That way I have a safety factor as I'm descending on my Petzl Stop.

Patrick

I like the New tribe ascender straps. It's one piece and fits me just fine. I would like to get a shockable safety lanyard to use with a VT.
I just love all the the options we have-from beginners like me to Coonrad, Nick and the rest of the more experienced people.