ENTS white pine measuring session on 10/17

On Saturday 10/17 I solo climbed the fourth tallest white pine in New England to do a manual tape drop measurement. The climb was performed under a research permit to verify the accuracy of ground-based measurements obtained by the Eastern Native Tree Society (ENTS) using laser rangefinder, clinometer and the ENTS "sine top/sine bottom" technique. The good news is that the tape drop (manual measurement) came in at 163.5', exactly in the middle of the two best laser/clinometer measurements of 164' and 163'. This tree has very difficult to see (from the ground) multiple top branches. By climbing into the top I was able to determine exactly which of several branches was the highest and could direct a ground-based measuring team to focus on measuring that top.

A key problem was that temperatures in the low 40's f. reduced my slingshot's max height potential (Sidewinder fully extended on 10' pole). After two blooper shots I put 150' of 1.75mm Zingit on the end of my regular 2.2mm throwline and just cleared the lowest solid branch at approx. 95' on the third shot. Normally in summer temperatures I can fire a 10oz bag on 2.2mm line up into the 115-120' range. I'll post video and a full report later.
-moss

Good work Moss! I bet the autumn (sorry 'fall') colours were spectacular.

How did you measure to the very top? Did you have some kind of fold-up/telescopic pole? Can't wait to see the video!

Michael

michaeljspraggon wrote:

Good work Moss! I bet the autumn (sorry 'fall') colours were spectacular.

How did you measure to the very top? Did you have some kind of fold-up/telescopic pole? Can't wait to see the video!

Michael

Thanks Michael. We started out with sun in the morning and then it clouded up by the time I was in the top. The peak Fall foliage is past for that area (northwest Massachusetts) but still quite beautiful.

I modified a cheapo and very light telescoping paint pole, collapsed it's a little over 4', extends to a little over 8'. I added a folding "lever" on the top of it so I could put it right on the top of the highest twig. I measured exactly 8 ft. from the underside of the lever and marked it on the pole handle about an inch up from the bottom of the pole. As I reached the top I was concerned that I wouldn't be able to reach the highest twig with the pole but was able to. I'm thinking I got lucky and need to make a longer pole.
-moss

Here's the video from the climb:

-moss

A very laid back and picturesque bit of film - what a beautiful valley - I'd love to go hiking there!

You've given me some good ideas on how measure trees without an assistant climber. Regarding the pole for measuring the tip, the YouTube link I posted a while back (I think it's this one) shows how a used a fold-up tent pole, giving a 9 foot reach. It folds up to about 14" long by 2" wide and fits in my small backpack I wear while climbing.



Michael

Nice, I like the bungee/folding tent pole concept. My extension pole max's out at 8 ft., I was very lucky to be able to reach the topmost twig. I can see in your video that you're also on an uncomfortably narrow diameter vertical branch. I think that a 15 ft. pole would be better for the trees I climb, I'm going to see if I can piece together a tent pole solution.
-moss

Go for aluminium tent pole tubing (fibreglass is too bendy) at least 10mm diameter if you're going to try and hold 15ft of it straight up, and put an offset at the top.

Also, I tied a couple of feet of thin cord to the end and clipped it onto a biner so that I could take it out of the pack (which you saw secured to the stem with a blue sling) and clip it straight onto my harness, thereby avoiding sending a 9ft missile down to Dave!

The thin stem was fine for me to balance on, though I wouldn't trust anyone else to do it - it's taken years to get the sense of balance and delicacy I have now! I still had to remeasure down to a point 5.5m from the top so that I could find a place to sit and set up the 200ft tape.

Michael

Two questions about these high climbs.

1. High shots. Has anyone used a big closed faces reel with Fire Line for first shots? I used to hang with climbers in the old days that used reels for first pull, then the throw line for second pull, then the rope pull. Bit of a chore but sure put the throw weight out of sight.

2. About the tree register. Did you inspect the paper? Was it dry and writable? I used to hang registers long ago in the early days and always had a problem with dry paper due to condensation. I even used waterproof paper.

And the ethics of tree registers. What is your viewpoint on leaving something human in the treetops? I used to catch a lot of heck for it. What is the trend these days? Do you loose friendships and get bad e-mail for treetop signatures or is it a networking thing? Please don't tell me they have Facebook URL's up there.

1. Never used a reel - so far the Big Shot has been able to reach any shot in this country.

2. Regarding the 'guestbook' I don't have a problem with it as it can't be seen from the ground and was tied in such a way that it wouldn't constrict the branch in years to come. It's a good way to network as you know that anyone who contacts you must be a bona-fide climber.

Michael

I did another tape drop on a tall white pine, I went with Michael's idea for a more compact folding pole to reach the high twig. I found a Black Diamond avalanche rescue probe that fit the bill. It has a twisted strand steel cable inside instead of a bungee but otherwise functions like a tent pole. Downside is it's only 9 feet extended, I was able to get the top but sooner or later I'm going to run into a situation where I'll need more that 9 feet. I've settled on the idea that 12' will be ideal, I'll build it out of tent poles eventually.

Hard to see but in this photo I'm reaching up to the top twig with the 9' pole. The total measurement was 156' to the ground:


Here's another good-size white pine next to the one I'm in:


More photos here
-moss

Good job Moss!

That top is offset by quite a way. Looks like you're holding the pole at arm's length. Any more offset and you would need to angle the pole and use trigonometry with the aid of a sextant. However the consequent bending of the pole would complicate matters as it would reduce the effective length from end to end of the pole.

This could be got around by stretching a length of wire from the tip of the pole, then measuring the length of this wire (eg. L) and its angle (eg. A°). Height from the tip of the tree would therefore be L x cos(A) (but you probably knew this anyway!)

You've got some tall plants over there, not dissimilar to England

Michael

Yep, you pretty much nailed it. I had a clinometer on me, I could've used the pole to get the length at an angle and then done a sine function on the angle X length of the pole to determine height of the offset top. But there is slight flex in the pole so the length value would be a little off. I'm thinking I'll tape a little level to the handle of the pole so in the future I'm sure I have it vertical when I can do it that way. When you're in the top you may think you're holding it vertical but it's actually challenging to know for sure without something to go by. That's the second offset top I've had to deal with recently. Lessons learned.
-moss

Oops, I meant sine not cos - duh!

Pines seem more prone to offsets when their top is broken or dies back than firs, which grow back only slightly offset. The first tree I measured for the Tree Register was a Scots Pine with a similar offset to this one and I held the pole at arms length too. Next year I'll refine my measuring methods on the ground first.

Michael

Yep, probably different ways to do it, I use distance to the top (, angle to the top (A) and calculate as follows:
sine(B)x A = height

That's why I like pines, you never know what you're going to get until you're in the top, always interesting branch configurations based on the history of the tree.
-moss