TCI training photos

Greetings,
I just received a link to some photos of last weekends class held @ the Founders Grove. I had 2 students for the I.B.C. and one stayed for a couple of extra days to learn SRT and Rigging for Tree Top Camping.
Enjoy.

Adventure-UP!!
Tengu

http://www.patty-isaac.info/Photos/climbing/index.html

special thanks to "snake bite"

Originally posted by tengu
Greetings,
I just received a link to some photos of last weekends class held @ the Founders Grove. I had 2 students for the I.B.C. and one stayed for a couple of extra days to learn SRT and Rigging for Tree Top Camping.
Enjoy.

Adventure-UP!!
Tengu

http://www.patty-isaac.info/Photos/climbing/index.html

special thanks to "snake bite"

What did you use for descending on SRT?

Was the SRT line anchored at the bottom of the tree or choked on the limb?

Tom

Greetings Tom,
The SRT class is an 8 hour day of climbing with a variety of different single rope techs. and descending with a variety of different tools.
The anchor is "choked off" on the climb with the photos.
For descending tools we use the rack, figure 8,petzl pirahna, munter hitch, grigri,petzl stop etc..

Hope to see you in Nebraska this Sept. not a far drive from the cities.

Adventure-UP!!
tim

What was the rap tool of preference at the end of the day?

The climb is on the calendar. That might be the weekend of the MN Tree Climbing Championships so I would have an emotional conflict to settle

Tom

After trying out different rap. tools, about 90% of the students perfer a grigri with the rack coming in 2nd.
They are climbing on Fly rope and the max height on the climb is about
22 meters.

Did you have the opportunity to use an I'd or Anthron descender? both of these have sweet spots so if the climber pulls too hard or lets go, the device locks off.

What kind of backup system is used for descending?

Racks scare me in the hands of tree workers.

Tom

Tree climbers use a "let go-lock off" system when they climb. Our brain and muscles get programmed into an automatic mode after a while. Using racks and eights, especially without backups, assumes that in an emergency, our brain/muscles will do what is right.

To me, this is counterintuitive.

Also, since the weight of the rope below the rack will have a big effect on the rate of descent, it adds another reversal into the formula.

Just my opinion, and I know that it is a minority opinion

Tom

Originally posted by Tom Dunlap
Also, since the weight of the rope below the rack will have a big effect on the rate of descent, it adds another reversal into the formula.

Tom, I almost always agree with your posts, but this time you threw me. The rope is supported by the tie in point. The only load on the rack is the climber and the gear he carries. The rate of descent is controled only by the number of bars the rope travels by. What were you talking about, maybe I'm missing something.

Climb Safe!
Icabod

I used to do all my raps from a 6 bar brake when I was doing window washing I even did several 15 story drops in a 40mph wind (talk about stupid, I landed about 40' horizontally from my anchor point). I never really thought about that. Because I generally had 30#+ of water attached to my bosuns chair and I always used all 6 bars. I have always assumed that I had sloshed so much water off on the way down that that was the reason for the speed up. I usually just adjusted by sliding bars up from the bottom of the rack; using angled slot bars it's hard to add bars one handed, and I never felt comfy doing that when locked off, but then, I've an old (10+ ans) rack and have no hyper bar. I guess it's true you learn something new everyday.

Climb Safe!
Icabod

I know that racks work. With proper training they are a good tool. Much better than eights.

My issue is that arbos brains are programed to "let go/lock off" which is the opposite of most rap devices. In a panic, I'm concerned that arbos will go to their auto mode which will lead to a fall.

Like I said, a minority opinion.

Tom

I generally agree with Tom -- the Petzl I'D seems to be the safest tool for me in single-rope descending. I often use it also as an ascender in the yo-yo method of climbing. In a lot of circumstances I also like my rack (mine has two hyper-bars and I can tie off almost instantly if I need to stop at a certain height on the way down, and it is rated for more weight than most other descenders which makes it desirable for rescue work) I've also used a Grigri, several versions of stop descenders (I like their smooth actions), and various figure-8 devices. Every one of these descending devices have their good points, while several also have an occasional bad point (for instance, the Grigri will sometimes slip if weight is taken off it for a moment and then reapplied) The figure-8s scare me the most, probably because of the difficulty in changing over to them while suspended 75-150 feet up in the air and the difficulty in tieing off if I want to stop on the way down. I've also learned that what works best for one climber may not be as comfortable or comforting for another climber.
I hope someday to be able to try a "Lock Jack" device, but I'm not going to spend about $250 for one until I know it's something I want in my bag of tricks.

WHAT?!


quote:

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Originally posted by Tom Dunlap
Also, since the weight of the rope below the rack will have a big effect on the rate of descent, it adds another reversal into the formula.

---

Icabod said:
"Tom, I almost always agree with your posts, but this time you threw me. The rope is supported by the tie in point. The only load on the rack is the climber and the gear he carries. The rate of descent is controled only by the number of bars the rope travels by. "

Nope, Tom is right. The weight of the rope itself below you is a big factor...it acts similar to your hand pulling down the rope and locks off devices. The climber's weight is supported by the anchor, and to control the rope you have to control the weight of the rope beneath you.
On a long drop you actually have to feed the rope up into the device to get it to let you free.

On a similar note, I've been climbing in some eucalyptus trees with a 60 meter/200 foot rope (which isnt enough to get you back to the ground in several of these trees.) The weight of the rope itself is so strong it will zip on right through the pulley and friction knot- you have to be vigilant otherwise, when not tied in, it will try to escape you!
A local arborist, Jerry Romanski, uses a second prussik loop far beneath to take some of the weight on his harness...I've just been using alpine butterflies to give me some slack to work with. I'd like to just use a shorter rope, butcant bring myself to use the knife...