CHECK YOUR SADDLES

Please, everyone check their saddles. It can happen to the best.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/10/26/CLIMBER.TMP

Thanks for giving us a heads up on saddle inspections. Older gear needs close scrutiny as far as wear is concerned. Recreational climbers generally have a longer use period than professional tree climbers. This is because of the hours spent in the saddle.

What is a professional tree climber? It is one that takes care of trees in every conceivable condition- sick, declining, storm damaged, or in perfect health. The professional climber will spend 8-10 hours in a tree 5 days a week- which of course puts a lot of wear on the gear when compared to the occasional recreational tree climber who might spend a few hours a week or month up in a tree. The professional will also be working with sharp cutting tools, which can destroy gear in an instant.

Back to gear inspections. A recreational climber might inspect their gear- all of their gear, on an annual basis. A professional will have many more inspections of their gear- even to the point of daily inspections before going aloft.

How many of us inspect our gear on a regular basis? It is an important question to ask.

There are a couple of active threads both on TCI and TCC about worn rope and gear. A good thing to be thinking about. A lot of new climbers worry excessively for a while, then learn to trust their gear. Wear and tear can sneak up on you. I try to run my climbing ropes all the way through my hands at least once as I put them away after a climb, and at least look over hardware during set up, but it's been a few months since I've done a full inspection.

Good psychology.
MarkF made a good point on the worn rope thread.
A number of us are too new to climbing to really have “old” gear (yet). Most of the older guys are relatively new to climbing and most of the younger one’s, well, it’s pretty hard to have 20 years climbing experience if your only 27 years old, eh?

My gear has been in recreational use for 4+ years now and is showing wear. I really don’t have a reference point to judge “wear” other than common sense.

One a side note. . .
I occasionally climb with arbor workers and I always pay close attention to their gear. Their stuff is usually well worn, way past anything I would be comfortable in.

Then again, as a REC climber, I do have the luxury of being able to baby my gear.
-Ej-

I realize this is an ancient thread, but as a noob I've been rather uneasy about the new climbing harnesses I've looked at. I'm sure these things all use superb modern materials and are well tested -- but I think I'll go with the massive, old-fashioned, lineman stuff.

I would Be more concerned with \"comfort\" rather than \"Old fashion\" Old work models are fairly uncomfortable and you will end up having to buy a second seat soon after you learn to climb. The best Saddles for the Sport (IMHO) are The New Tribe ones. They are durable, meet safety Standards, are fairly priced and have been proven very safe and reliable for many years now.
Work harnesses used by most Arborists are made for \"working\" and not \"hanging\" around like we do, so they are \"standing' on their legs most of the time while working while we are mostly hanging from the harness just having fun.

Time will tell but I think I'll be Ok. This belt has a 3 inch wide butt sling which I will strap to my legs using a safety harness. That will give me a grand total of seven metal D-rings and absolutely no goofy little fabric belay loops.

On the sad story which started this thread I guess I don't understand (as a noob) why a super-pro like Todd Skinner wouldn't have grabbed a hank of rope and in two minutes have replaced a worn loop.

(Oops -- again that weird meta thingie - what is a safe synonym for the M word?)

Well, a case of too much self confidence and not enough common sense. Some of these Adventure Rock Climbers consider themselves indestructible and believe that checking gear is for others(wimps). Gravity does not affect them!

I check my gear before every climb because I am positive that gravity affects me(personal experience with a close call). That loop on the harness is not replaceable in most cases and the entire harness should have been destroyed a long time ago before the fatal fall.

I am also concerned with home-made gear that has not been tested or meet any climbing standard but is regularly used because it is easy to make or just because is cheap compared with industry designed and inspected gear. Also, making alterations to climbing Safety Rated Gear is asking for trouble. Sooner or later trouble finds you.

Davej wrote:

I realize this is an ancient thread, but as a noob I've been rather uneasy about the new climbing harnesses I've looked at. I'm sure these things all use superb modern materials and are well tested -- but I think I'll go with the massive, old-fashioned, lineman stuff.

Linesman harnesses are not made for tree climbing, they are made for spiking up telephone poles, a very specific use. Trust Oldtimer on this one, the New Tribe harnesses are perfect for rec climbing. They are very well made in the good ol' USA. I've beat up my NT harnesses pretty good (apparently I'm known to be rough on gear) and they are holding up very well. My favorite harness is the NT Tengu followed by the NT Vi Special. They are built strong and are very comfortable.

The accident with the rock harness involved failure of the webbing loop holding the front of the harness together. NT harnesses use a 10,000 lb. rated screwlink for the same purpose, you can hang a car or two on it, if the limb is strong enough. Remember that a rock harness is designed to be as light as possible and catch a falling climber. A tree harness is designed to support your weight with comfort throughout the entire climb. Strength and comfort are the most important qualities.
-moss

Davej wrote:

Time will tell but I think I'll be Ok. This belt has a 3 inch wide butt sling which I will strap to my legs using a safety harness. That will give me a grand total of seven metal D-rings and absolutely no goofy little fabric belay loops.

On the sad story which started this thread I guess I don't understand (as a noob) why a super-pro like Todd Skinner wouldn't have grabbed a hank of rope and in two minutes have replaced a worn loop.

(Oops -- again that weird meta thingie - what is a safe synonym for the M word?)

K, I didn't see that you already picked up a harness. As you're learning about tree climbing keep your mind open, it's difficult to make early decisions on gear choices without understanding (through experience) the climbing technique.

Most climbing accidents happen to experienced practitioners. Over-confidence leads to short-cutting and mistakes. Most (but not all) beginner climbers are extremely cautious and carefully consider the implications of every move they make. That's a good thing for long-term survival.
-moss

Yes, I'll admit I had been looking at rock climbing harnesses -- and rejected them for appearing to be too flimsy. Didn't know about the tree-specific harnesses until after I had already acquired the linesman's. I think it will be Ok for my limited use -- just somewhat bulky and klunky. I like redundancy. Actually the m-e-t-a-l l-i-n-k-s on the NT harnesses don't thrill me. Hopefully they are of better quality than the hardware store variety. I've given up on those things and now only use the U-clevises with pins.

See: http://home.att.net/~galt_57/opened.jpg

Davej wrote:

Yes, I'll admit I had been looking at rock climbing harnesses -- and rejected them for appearing to be too flimsy. Didn't know about the tree-specific harnesses until after I had already acquired the linesman's. I think it will be Ok for my limited use -- just somewhat bulky and klunky. I like redundancy. Actually the m-e-t-a-l l-i-n-k-s on the NT harnesses don't thrill me. Hopefully they are of better quality than the hardware store variety. I've given up on those things and now only use the U-clevises with pins.

See: http://home.att.net/~galt_57/opened.jpg

Consider that hanging in a rock harness for more than 3-5 minutes can be extremely painful and result in numb legs. For tree climbing expect hours of hang time per climb.

Yep, the hardware store screwlinks are absolutely verbotten for life support on a rope. NT harnesses use high quality rapide malllions for the screwlink, they have the country of manufacture and the load rating stamped on them. Don't use anything in your system that is not load rated, of known provenance (manufacturer and country of orgin) and intended for life support use, that includes cord, carabiners, climbing rope, screwlinks and slings. There is nothing that you can buy at a hardware store, Home Depot, Lowe's etc. that can be used for life support use in tree climbing unless your local hardware store also happens to be an arborist gear supplier. You can trust the life support features and functionality of NT harnesses, they've been proven in perhaps 1000's of hours (probably more) of tree time. I've never heard of an NT harness failing in any way. Any tree harness will eventually suffer from wear, that's why regular gear inspection is an essential part of tree climbing safety. If the harness life support connections show serious wear then the harness should be retired from service. In close to four years of regular climbing I've yet to retire an NT harness. Working climbers tend to retire their harnesses sooner due to intensive daily use.
-moss

I agree with Moss. You will not be comfortable hanging for an hour or longer in a linesman type saddle - regardless of the width of the padding. They are for access, life safety and fall protection, but not meant to be hung in for extended periods. Linemen stand on pegs or spurs to work and arborists stand on limbs. Neither hang in the saddle for very long.

Davej wrote:

...I've been rather uneasy about the new climbing harnesses I've looked at. I'm sure these things all use superb modern materials and are well tested -- but I think I'll go with the massive, old-fashioned, lineman stuff.

\"Old fashioned\" is the operative phrase here. As a new climber, it is natural for you to be concerned about equipment and the safety of it. Being cautious is OK as long as you don't let it get in the way of safety. I've seen new rock climbers be SO afraid that their gear was going to fail, or not hold, that they forgot about the safety basics of the climb itself.

Dave, you're not old enough to be holding on to \"old fashioned\" ways. There are a lot of folks on here that are way past 50, who embrace new ideas and gear - this is the stuff that is going to make climbing easier for you, and safer too.

It seems to me that before you buy anything else, or climb anything, you should try to hook up with an experienced recreational tree climber in your area and try it out. They'll be able to show you what is good, and not good - what is safe, and not safe.

If you haven't used your lineman saddle yet, you may be able to return it. If not, don't feel bad. There are a lot of us who have made \"choices\" and now own 2 types of something - The original one, AND the right one for the job.

Thanks all for sharing information.