Schwabisch vs. Valdetain vs. Distel

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14 years 1 month ago #134579 by greenluck
Schwabisch vs. Valdetain vs. Distel was created by greenluck
I'm thinking of switching from a split tail 4/2 blake's, to either the Schwabisch, Valdetain or Distel.

-What's the best spliced eye to eye length for each knot? 30"?

-Any advantages or disadvantages to any of the knots?

-What pulley is best to work with the knots?

Currently using 1/2" Arborplex........

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14 years 1 month ago - 14 years 1 month ago #134581 by moss
Replied by moss on topic Re:Schwabisch vs. Valdetain vs. Distel
greenluck wrote:

I'm thinking of switching from a split tail 4/2 blake's, to either the Schwabisch, Valdetain or Distel.

-What's the best spliced eye to eye length for each knot? 30"?

-Any advantages or disadvantages to any of the knots?

-What pulley is best to work with the knots?

Currently using 1/2" Arborplex........


I recommend buying split tail cordage by the foot, tie the eyes with double overhand noose (aka Scaffold Knot) and explore different cord composition, hitches and split tail lengths. Once you have it dialed in then you 'll have an idea of what length works best for you before committing to spliced eyes.

CMI Micropulley is my favorite for slack tending the hitch. Many use the Petzl Fixe but I find it to be heavy, and inflexible. The micropulley can be quickly repurposed for a variety of uses, the Fixe less so.

Distel and Schwabisch tend to bind in heavy use situations, you can always loosen and keep going. VT has to be dialed just right, otherwise you have to constantly push it up to get it to grab. XT is the best I've used, I try others and keep going back to it. Distel is my favorite for my short lanyard, can be tuned so there's practically zero sitback when I load it.

XT photos , I use a 4 wrap coil and the cord length is tuned so the eyes are pretty tight on the rope below the braids (in the photos the tails are a little too long).

XT grabs much more reliably than the VT and tends to bind much less than Distel or Schwabisch. Mileage varies per rope and hitch type, and cord length. For your 1/2" Arborplex the Beeline 10mm is going to be a decent match.
-moss
Last edit: 14 years 1 month ago by moss.

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14 years 3 weeks ago - 14 years 3 weeks ago #134591 by greenluck
Replied by greenluck on topic Re:Schwabisch vs. Valdetain vs. Distel
Thanks for suggesting the XT. It works great and seems be a little more reliable than the VT, and it tends great.

Looks like the CMI micro pulley I bought some time ago was a good choice. The CMI pulley sure is easy to install and works very well with the XT.

Don't worry I've be using the XT "slow and low" to start, in a couple days I'm going to try it out on a 75' climb.

Also 10mm beeline works great with cheap 1/2" ArborPlex just like MOSS suggested.

Nice to get some help...........thanks.
Last edit: 14 years 3 weeks ago by greenluck.

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14 years 3 weeks ago #134592 by moss
Replied by moss on topic Re:Schwabisch vs. Valdetain vs. Distel
Glad that's working for you. Biggest problem I had switching from a Blake's to a an eye-2-eye hitch is getting off the ground. It's fairly easy to pull under a Blake's to get moving up. To get off the ground on an eye-2-eye you need to lock the tail either single foot footlock, two foot footlock or Pantin. Pantin really smooths the way for ascending on an eye-2-eye.
-moss

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14 years 3 weeks ago #134601 by greenluck
Replied by greenluck on topic Re:Schwabisch vs. Valdetain vs. Distel
I'm looking at the Petzl Pantin and the CMI foot ascender.

The CMI looks a lot bigger. I have never seen or heard of anyone using the CMI.

Moss, do you like the Pantin better?

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14 years 3 weeks ago #134602 by moss
Replied by moss on topic Re:Schwabisch vs. Valdetain vs. Distel
greenluck wrote:

I'm looking at the Petzl Pantin and the CMI foot ascender.

The CMI looks a lot bigger. I have never seen or heard of anyone using the CMI.

Moss, do you like the Pantin better?


I like the Pantin, it has a lower profile, the CMI is a little bigger.
-moss

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13 years 10 months ago - 13 years 10 months ago #134709 by greenluck
Replied by greenluck on topic Re:Schwabisch vs. Valdetain vs. Distel
I just ordered my foot ascender, 180' of Zing-it, the Big Shot, another cambium protector, and the Working Climber
DVD series 1.

I hope UPS hurries so I can start to use the xt hitch on a regular basis.
Last edit: 13 years 10 months ago by greenluck.

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13 years 10 months ago #134718 by treeman
Replied by treeman on topic Re:Schwabisch vs. Valdetain vs. Distel
I use the CMI foot ascender. A bit bigger than the Pantin, but you get used to it like most tree climbign gear. I find I can engage and disengage the ascender easier with my other foot. It also has a fine "Texas spur" sound as you walk along. NOT ninja! But I was raised in Dallas and I like the audio touch.

Waving from a treetop,
Peter Treeman Jenkins

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13 years 10 months ago - 13 years 10 months ago #134724 by greenluck
Replied by greenluck on topic Re:Schwabisch vs. Valdetain vs. Distel
After speaking with several tree climbers that use foot ascenders, I decided to buy a CMI. They seemed fairly priced and claims of less damage to the rope sold me. I'm sure both the Pantin and the CMI would work very well. But I had no idea that the CMI was non-ninja!

Treeman, I enjoyed your video. Lots of good information. Have you ever thought about releasing an advanced tree climbing video?
Last edit: 13 years 10 months ago by greenluck.

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13 years 10 months ago - 13 years 10 months ago #134731 by moss
Replied by moss on topic Re:Schwabisch vs. Valdetain vs. Distel
greenluck wrote:

After speaking with several tree climbers that use foot ascenders, I decided to buy a CMI. They seemed fairly priced and claims of less damage to the rope sold me. I'm sure both the Pantin and the CMI would work very well. But I had no idea that the CMI was non-ninja!


Not to worry, the Pantin cam jingle jangles as you walk. Definitely not ninja if you leave it on your foot walking through the woods. I've been climbing on a length of Tachyon for at least two years with the Pantin and haven't noticed any damage, the rope is in excellent condition. Even with the relatively low profile Pantin I have to be careful on thin-barked trees like beech not to scrape into the cambium. Pantin has a slightly steeper learning curve to keep it on the rope when you're lifting your foot in certain situations. The body seems to figure it out after a few climbs, not a problem for me. I like that I can get the rope out of the Pantin very quickly without using my hands. Really comes down to personal preference and climbing style, I'm sure you'll be happy with your CMI foot ascender.
-moss
Last edit: 13 years 10 months ago by moss.

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13 years 10 months ago #134732 by 2chops
Replied by 2chops on topic Re:Schwabisch vs. Valdetain vs. Distel
I only used a foot acender once, while I was in ATL at Treemans. We used the CMI and I liked it quite a bit. I liked the auto lock feature that keeps it on the rope. If you own a Pantin, Peter's video has a neat trick of using a key chain 'biner to insert in a hole by the cam that will keep the rope in place.
Peter also showed me a good technique in which you make a loop with the rope just below the foot acender. Put your non-acendered foot in the loop(stirrup style) and put that foot on top of the instep of your acendered foot while you push down for the advance. Whew. This helps keep you from getting an over stressed knee by just using the leg with the acender as your sole source of thrust for the advance. Once you get onto the rythem of the thing you can realy get a nice rythmic tuning of the rope as you go up. ;)

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13 years 10 months ago #134746 by greenluck
Replied by greenluck on topic Re:Schwabisch vs. Valdetain vs. Distel
2chops wrote:

Peter also showed me a good technique in which you make a loop with the rope just below the foot acender. Put your non-acendered foot in the loop(stirrup style) and put that foot on top of the instep of your acendered foot while you push down for the advance. Whew. This helps keep you from getting an over stressed knee by just using the leg with the acender as your sole source of thrust for the advance. Once you get onto the rythem of the thing you can realy get a nice rythmic tuning of the rope as you go up. ;)


This sounds like a good tip. I'll give it a try tonight with my new foot ascender. Thanks.

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13 years 10 months ago #134747 by moss
Replied by moss on topic Re:Schwabisch vs. Valdetain vs. Distel
Here's a shaky video showing the technique. This has been my primary DRT ascent technique for a couple years plus. Be patient with it, once you have it you'll fly.

-moss

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13 years 10 months ago #134748 by moss
Replied by moss on topic Re:Schwabisch vs. Valdetain vs. Distel
Meant to point out the technique I use is a little different from Peter's, the feet are side-by side when you stand on the rope, one is not on top of the other. Similar concept, different implementation.
-moss

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13 years 10 months ago #134749 by 2chops
Replied by 2chops on topic Re:Schwabisch vs. Valdetain vs. Distel
Good vid. After watching it I realised that the technique I mentioned is the same thing. The one foot on top of the other part was only done on the first few advances because the rope wouldn't "self feed" due to a lack of weight. Once up to about the 8' mark there is enough rope below you to do the side by side thing. My bad. Thanks moss. One of these days I'm going to have my more tech savy step-daughter show me how to insert pics and vids on these forums.

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