Split-tail with one carabiner?

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15 years 8 months ago #132167 by chagahunter
Split-tail with one carabiner? was created by chagahunter
I just started using a split-tail in order to save the end of my rope from friction wear and I don't like using two separate carabiners - one for the figure 8 on a bight and the other for the split-tail. They make too much noise knocking up against each other. My solution is to put both on one carabiner attached to the delta link. Here's my question: does this compromise the strength of the locking carabiner?

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15 years 8 months ago #132168 by TreeTramp
Replied by TreeTramp on topic Re:Split-tail with one carabiner?
No problem with the strength ratings in using one biner but that negates the main reason the split-tail was designed. By having your up rope secured to your center point with its own biner once secured with your lanyard you can un-clip the up rope and advance it to a highter TIP.

See you at the top,
dan

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15 years 8 months ago #132169 by Baker
Replied by Baker on topic Re: Split -tail with one carabiner?
FYI, This should be in the Tree Climbing Technique section.

You could tie your 'up rope' directly to your center D using an anchor hitch (see page 73 of The Tree Climber's Companion). This will save the biner for your split-tail. I would imagine doing it this way would be a bit more time consuming to undo if climbing on both ends of the rope (multiple pitches), but I've seen arborists do it this way though.

If only doing a single pitch, you could tie the good ole' figure 8 directly to the main D too.

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15 years 8 months ago #132170 by moss
Replied by moss on topic Re: Split -tail with one carabiner?
I've posted in the past about how much I hate the clacking biners from a split tail. My solution is to tie the split tail directly to the delta (or pear) on my NT harness. I put a rope thimble on my NT Tengu pear screwlink and tie the split tail to it.

If you can ignore the rest of the stuff in the photo, the orange rope is the split tail. It's stowed in this photo but you can see the attachment to the pear:


When you want to advance the rope in the tree you can detach the climbing rope biner (standing end) from the delta (always stay tied in with a lanyard or the other end of your climbing rope) and pull as much rope as you need up through the split tail knot to advance your line for the next pitch. One nice thing about this method apart from the convenience and how quiet it is: you'll never drop your climbing rope.

For tying in twice (using the other end of the rope) you could use a trad Blake's setup for the second tie-in, that way you can be tied in twice with a total of two biners on the delta
-moss

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15 years 8 months ago #132179 by oldtimer
Replied by oldtimer on topic Re:Split-tail with one carabiner?
I use Split tails all the time and use only one biner. I use the other end of the rope pre-rigged hanging from the back of my saddle to advance the next TIP
see the photo here




FYI : The other white rope seating in front (in the photo) is my two sided lanyard that is attached (semi-permanently) to the front of the saddle and it is used to make the transfers and for extra safety while working on the tree with sharp tools! :ohmy:

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15 years 8 months ago #132181 by chagahunter
Replied by chagahunter on topic Re:Split-tail with one carabiner?
Thanks, Dan! Actually, I can still unclip the split-tail by slipping it off the carabiner.

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15 years 8 months ago #132182 by chagahunter
Replied by chagahunter on topic Re: Split -tail with one carabiner?
Thanks for the FYI.

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15 years 8 months ago #132183 by chagahunter
Replied by chagahunter on topic Re: Split -tail with one carabiner?
What knot is tied around the thimble in your photo?

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15 years 8 months ago #132184 by chagahunter
Replied by chagahunter on topic Re:Split-tail with one carabiner?
Thanks for the helpful photo!

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15 years 8 months ago - 15 years 8 months ago #132186 by moss
Replied by moss on topic Re: Split -tail with one carabiner?
chagahunter wrote:

What knot is tied around the thimble in your photo?


It goes by various names, two versions of instructions for the same knot here:
Scaffold Knot
Double Fisherman's Loop
(click on Double Fisherman's loop in the knot list)

I like to leave at least 4 inches of tail after the knot, in the photo the tail is hidden.
-moss
Last edit: 15 years 8 months ago by moss.

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15 years 8 months ago #132194 by Culinarytracker
Replied by Culinarytracker on topic Re:Split-tail with one carabiner?
My split tail and the end of my rope are always on the same carabiner.

1 - This does reduce the annoying clack of metal on metal.(I like to be nice and quiet)

2 - When I advance my t.i.p. I don't like to throw my rope with a carabiner on the end. I got a nice whap with one once. If I need the weight to make the throw, I use my in tree throwline. To move the rope up I simply slide the climb line off the carabiner, the split tail always stays put.

3 - When I start up the tree I have my second split tail pre-blake's hitched to the tail of my climb line, So when I'm ready to switch tie in points, I always set the new one with the tail before I move the first one. So I guess I climb with a double, single carabiner, split tail system. :)

4 - Keeping them both on one 'biner also means that when I am using both ends of the rope together, I only have two carabiners on my pear link. Four would be quite a task to deal with all the time.


Carl

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15 years 8 months ago #132204 by Davej
Replied by Davej on topic Re:Split-tail with one carabiner?
Culinarytracker wrote:

To move the rope up I simply slide the climb line off the carabiner, the split tail always stays put.


I like Moss's idea of putting the split tail(s) right onto the harness link.

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13 years 1 month ago #135391 by Treezybreez
Replied by Treezybreez on topic Re:Split-tail with one carabiner?
Here is the split tail system I have been using for about a year and a half now. It involves tying a double fisherman/scaffold knot on the working end of the rope. I clip both my split tail and my saddle bridge through the scaffold knot. Then I cinch down the scaffold knot.

This system reduces any clanking noises that can occur. Also the carabiners do not rub together as one might think.

I must remind everyone that this is purely experimental.

Has anyone else tried this before?

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13 years 1 month ago - 13 years 1 month ago #135392 by greenluck
Replied by greenluck on topic Re:Split-tail with one carabiner?
Treezybreez-

That is a very interesting experimental set-up you posted. I have never seen that set-up before. It looks like a simple solution to biner on biner clash.

Do you ever have problems with the double fishermans knot getting wedged inside the top biner?

Thanks for sharing your photo.
Last edit: 13 years 1 month ago by greenluck.

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13 years 1 month ago #135393 by Treezybreez
Replied by Treezybreez on topic Re:Split-tail with one carabiner?
Hi Greenluck,

No I have never had problems with the double fisherman becoming wedged. Nor have I ever had issues with the knot becoming loose.

Before I started using this system I always had trouble with either my split tail caribiner or the working end sliding over the rings on my Petzle saddle. As you can imagine this was very irritating.

Also, because I have screw locking biners I always situate them so that their gate is facing me. Just in case they were to loosen accidentally; I would be able to see it.

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