Next branch next branch next branch and then next branch

I was curious as to some techniques used out there to toss a rope over the next branch once you are up in there.

A throwbag with a cord seems to invite too many tangles for my liking, and tends to get stuck in angiosperms...

I've carried up bamboo sticks into Eucalyptus trees and used those to place the next branch, but they are awkward and I find them slightly dangerous.

I used to toss a nice steel carabiner over the next branch above, but I didn't like them falling on my head.

This setup ended up in inevitable snags, as well.


I now use a monkeys fist loop, unlocked so it can fall apart. There is a danger of having too many loops on your daisy chain and watching it get stuck regardless.


So here's a question- what's your method of accessing the next branch? Did any of these problems drive you crazy, and how did you deal with them?

Any good tricks for getting past that one pesky branch that can find its way into your DDRT loop?

looking forward to hearing some good tricks...

to be honest, i dont think you will go wrong with the monkey fist,
I've tried all sorts of techniques but i always end up resorting to a few attempts with a monkey fist
mind you, i now climb with 10.5mm mountaineering rope and you can hurl that stuff for miles, much better than traditional tree climbing rope.

Steve,

Help me out on the type of mountaineering rope that you're using. Polyester or Nylon? Are you using the DRT with Blake's Hitch or mechanical ascenders?


Thanks
JimK

A nuber of years ago I learned a better monkey's fist. The usual fashion is to make several coils then loop coils around them. Finish as a gasket coil or slipped. The problem with this is that you only get one toss per coil because it falls apart. If you throw a locked coil it might get jammed or hooked.

Tyr this: Tie a hangman's noose but with about five or six round turns. Then pull the noose loop down snug to the round turns. Most times, it will invert if it jams. It also stays tied for may throws. If there is a chance that it might jam I make sure that I make the round turns a little loose. If I'm confident that I won't snag and want a more streamlined weight I dress it out snug.

Tom

I usually just use a monkey fist. However, I always have a throwbag and line in my saddle pouch. When I was taking the facilitator course, Tim made me do numerous crossovers, half of them using throwline, half using monkey fists. So it can go either way for me.

Josh

hi jim.
I climb with beal topgun. Its nylon coated.
I climb drt with a petzl shunt.
I always use a cambium saver with a pulley attatched and decend at a smooth moderate speed so the poor resistance nylon has with regards to friction isn't a problem.
I've had this one piece of rope for a little over a year now and its in good nick still.

Tom,

The knot you described was taught to me as a "heaving knot", designed to be used when docking a ship, to fling the line to a dock worker to tie off your vessel. The knot works great in the tree unless the tree is one with a bark that has a large coefficent of friction. The only problem with the knot is that it dosent carry enough weight to bring itself back down so you end up tossing loops to get it back down. I dont think that it will invert, however I've tossed it into some pretty tight crotches and havent gotten it stuck yet, it tends to flip end over end when yanked, though thats a good way to catch the knot on the cranium, so always wear a lid.

I'm sure Joe Maher is around somewhere; I think he has a frightening story about getting a toss like this stuck during a solo climb (arruggh), though I'm not sure he will share it... I still need to get that book.

Cam

I climbed a redwood tree with a thirty foot throwline. We got the first limbs at about 60', then climbed up 200' more feet this way!

love
nick

In the third message above this one, Cam refers to a rather frightening episode that I experienced while on a solo wilderness climb in north Georgia. He implies that I might rather not talk about it. Let it be known that I have never passed on the opportunity to relate a good story!

The discussion here is about monkey fists and other various ways for advancing a climb beyond the entry pitch. Let me state that this experience did not involve a monkey fist and that the "fright" of the situation was only for as long as it took me to realize that I had quite a few creative options for resolving the situation.

I was in a large tulip poplar at a height of slightly more than one hundred feet. My next pitch would have been my final pitch and the anchor limb was about fifteen feet above my present perch. I had already used a short throwline and weightbag to get over the limb and was in the process of hauling my rope into place. I had used the
throwline/weightbag because there was too much foliage between me and the limb for me to have made a good throw with a monkey fist. I did not have a good view of the point at which the line was passing over the limb, but I was quite sure that I had a good anchor. I was climbing on a one-fifty foot length of Fly.

As the rope passed over the limb it became snagged on the upper side of the limb at the point where line and rope were tied together. I could not get the rope to move in either direction. I have never had a rope as securely stuck as this one. The rope would not move. It was caught and I could not even see what it was caught on. I put all my weight on the rope and it would not budge. I put all my weight on the throwline and it broke. The rope was as securely stuck as if I had tied it in place. That was when I suffered a condition described by one outdoor writer as a "Momentary Stationery Panic."

I was in a tree one hundred feet off the ground and in a remote location. I was snagged on a setting that I could not and would not trust. I was not carrying another piece of rope because when I go to such places I go as a minimalist.

Following my own Number One Rule for such situations I took a deep breath and then started to laugh at myself. No problem.

I had my throwline and weight bag so I tossed to another limb just beneath the one I was snagged on. I pulled up on my downrope, tied a figure-eight-on-a-bight, connected to my harness, reached further down on my downrope and tied a slipknot. The loop created by the slipknot formed a double-daisy and I pulled this bight over the newly accessed limb with my throwline and connected the loop into my harness. I then double-daisied my way up till I could reach my snagged rope, freed it, tossed it back over the limb it had been snagged on, tied a DRT bridge, hooked in, untied my other rigging, and the climb proceeded as usual.

Very simple.

Joe provides a good lesson here. There is a way out of (almost) every situation. During one of my climbs the tail of my line became entangled some 40' below me. I could not descend on DdRT as the running portion of the line was being held securly by the clove hitch that had formed below me. My initial reaction was to panic. "I can't get down now! OH NO!" I had a ground crew that day and he was able to throw a loop over the branch that set me free. The lesson here is that in such a situation the most important method for saving oneself is to calm down and examine the situation. When I had calmed down later in the day I realised that I could have simply ascended to my tie in point, lanyarded in to the TIP, secured the line with a running bowline, and descended on the Fig-8 that was clipped to my saddle. I should have been able to see this clearly, but my panic prevented me from saving myself. By the way it was a lesson learned, as I had to extract myself in this exact fashion some months later. (Always keep the tail of your line attached to your saddle, or stuff into a rope bag clipped to you to prevent such a snag.)

Lesson here- reamin calm, and Climb Safe!

Cam "Icabod" Taylor

About two weeks ago, by freak accident, a throwbag ended up clipped to my saddle. I realized it about 20' up. I was about to toss it down, then thought I'd leave it.

I found my self using it several times in that tree. I just clipped it to the end of my climbing line. Man! No more messing around tying the monkey's fist or similar throwing knots.

It has not been removed from my saddle since. When climbing medium sized trees, I will leave it clipped to the spliced-eye end of my climbing line until I get to the top. It just stays there, making every toss to the next branch that much easier.

love
nick

I found my self using it several times in that tree. I just clipped it to the end of my climbing line. Man! No more messing around tying the monkey's fist or similar throwing knots.
---
what about a weak link so as not to get the whole system jammed in a fork?

I like the idea of clipping a throw weight to the end of the climbing line as an alternative to monkey fists and throw lines. If you're using a biner to clip, don't you still run the risk of snagging? Could the weight be hard-tied to the figure eight loop using a figure eight follow through, for those of us who don't have spliced eyes? Cons?

Re: Joe's tale. I couldn't agree more with the advice to calm down, take stock, and laugh. Setting up for a group climb yesterday, I found myself getting impatient with the fast approaching start time and the bunches of kids who were wandering around in my vicinity for another nature class. Insead of using clove hitches to attach the climb rope to the throw line, I opted for the quick overhand knot to the weight. Of course the weight got stuck in both directions on the top of the limb. Only then did I settle down and focus.

My point is, in addition to calming down and taking stock of all your options (and bringing options with you) after a problem arises, it's not a bad idea to practice a little preventative medicine and have your attitude adjusted prior to taking off. I know it would have made things easier for me yesterday.

I personally use a shorter throw line and bag to advance in a tree. It is fast and accurate. If I am in a tree that can snag my lines more, I will carry several throw line rigs up in a bag. The lead climber should always carry up extra gear in the event of snags. Clipping your other end of the rope to harness is always good too. It can be used as a second rope in a pinch.

Treeman, how do you go about putting the throwline back in the bag after each toss?

I carried a small pouch with a 50' throwline and weight in it for a while. It seriously could take 5 or 10 minutes to stuff that thing back in there. It was too much of a pain...I had to get rid of it!

Nice idea....clipping the end of your rope to the saddle! I sometimes go up a tree KNOWING I am going to use the tail end...this might be one less step to worry about!

love
nick