Permission to climb trees. It’s still hard!

When TCI was started in 1983, I knew it would be a long road gaining acceptance. I’m talking about permission to climb trees in public areas, heck- permission to climb anywhere for that matter, with the exception of National Parks. I personally don’t think anyone should climb in national parks because they are so overused.

Please allow me to rant for a moment.
The recreational tree climbers (RTC’s) have been good folks. We know what good ethics are and we are all about good climbing practices. By the numbers I figure 99.9 percent of us are well behaved outdoor people- probably more mindful than a lot of other outdoor folks. But there are still ordinances in many municipalities and restrictions all over the place against tree climbing. The picture of tree climbers is an outdated “kids free climbing and falling out of trees” stereo type. It’s a mentality that goes back many decades in it’s viewpoint about WHO is climbing trees- certainly not adults with gear.

In the beginning it was an “educate the world about what we are doing” approach. Well......we have been on lots of national, international, and interstellar publications, TV, Cable, etc., etc.- decades of good will and education. It’s still uphill. Everyone is risk adverse, yet they (society) embraces rock climbing and caving not to mention all of those other new extreme sports getting press! RTC has a record of no injuries (those that took the time to learn what to do). Rock climbers and cavers make the news every year with fatalities. So here we RTC’s are with clean fingernails and public figures and rules whining “we don’t allow tree climbing here.” Is the same thing happening internationally?

Anyone have any words of wisdom on this subject? Any gains forward in RTC acceptance? Is our climbing attire forever stuck in ninja wear? It’s fun being secretive once in a while but not for our kids that are climbing with us now. A generation gone by now and RTC are still being discouraged. What is up?!

Peter Treeman Jenkins
Founder
TCI

Excellent points, Peter. I've been pondering this subject for a while now. And, since my coffee buzz is kicking in right about now, let me rant for a bit.

I've wondered if people are willing to accept Rock Climbing and Caving so readily, but not RTC, because of where we do it. Rock Climbers and Cavers are typically in National or State Parks, or more remote places, which are more removed from the common public view. Maybe those powers that be are fine with all that because they are "out there" away from public scrutiny, and "out of sight-out of mind".

RTC folks, although a lot are out in the wilderness, a good portion, (especially city-folk) are within municipalities; city parks, residential land and nearby wooded places. And, therefore more visible, and more likely to be scrutinized. City and park managers are probably viewing the whole scope of things going on within their city, watching for potentially disruptive or harmfull activities. And when they see anything out of the ordinary, they get that "Not On MY Watch" attitude.

So, I suppose, until RTC gets its due status as a safe, family-friendly activity, we must continue the fight for acceptance.

I am eternally grateful for folks like you, Treeman, who are pioneers of this movement. I've always loved being in nature and in trees and will never take for granted, the priveledge of enjoying God's greatest wonders. I will do my part to further our cause and educate folks in order to ease fears and apprehensions.

Ok, I'm Off Rope now. Thanks for listening!

Orion

Good stuff Treeman. And this is why I think that your facilatators have an important job. The more public/ facilatated climbs we can do, the more good exposure tree climbing will recieve. This is part of how I see my mission up here in PA. I know that I can legally climb in the state forrests and game lands. But I want to be able to climb in some of the big beauties in the city parks. Don't lose heart.

Ron.

Another thing to consider is that public land managers (city parks, state parks, conservation land etc.) are dealing with a wide variety of uses: mountain bikes, rock climbing, hang gliding, public outdoor events (runs, walks etc.) Each one has its impacts. Tree climbing is a johnny come lately to the scene, by now there are all sorts of restrictions on public lands to limit overuse. For instance in a large state park just south of Boston it is illegal to go off trail. This is true in many state lands and conservation lands. In that kind of rule context tree climbing is a non-starter. So... many barriers to overcome.

In my part of the world ninja means climbing in places where few people go. No black face paint, ghillie suits and camo rope required, you can dress as bright orange as you please. For now my main source of climbing locations are barely ninja, more like don't ask don't tell. Or looking at it another way, don't make a nuisance of yourself.

The other side of it is the steady work convincing public land managers one at a time that technical tree climbing can be very safe, low impact to the environment and a healthy physical activity for the public.

Agree with 2-chops, facilitating group climbs in high visibility locations is a great way to demonstrate the safety of technical tree climbing
-AJ

Orion,
Thanks for your comments. That’s an interesting thought- penalized for high visibility. Never thought of that. Only way to get around that visibility issue is to maybe do what Moss does- climb in out of the way places.


2Chops
As facilitators in the parks we do get a lot of attention because we load the trees up with climbers. Many of them are kids that make a lot of joyful noises (thank goodness!). It may just be like any other business. You get your foot in the door and use the places you climb at as references when trying to convince the public officials at different places to let you in. It has worked (using references) a few times here.

Moss
Don’t ask, don’t tell. Good one. No there is a term that has been getting press lately.


I spent a lot of my childhood summers in Estes Park. That is where you enter into the Rocky Mountain National Park. I saw rock climbing in its infancy, much like tree climbing. The big attraction in the park of course was the numerous mountains to climb and the clean rock; good solid granite. Next to Yosemite, this was and is one of the top rock climbing areas in America.

It was illegal to climb there in the early days. You would get fined and your gear would get confiscated. But the illegal nature of climbing there actually stimulated climbs. It was considered a rite of passage to get busted. It was a misdemeanor- not a felony case. It created a game of cat and mouse.

On the ranger side it was a drain. It’s not easy busting a climbing party that is on the rock. It was even harder busting a solo climber. The ranger would have to stake the climber out and wait, usually in some remote areas. It eventually got so bad that the rangers gave up chasing the climbers. A system was set up to allow climbers to sign in and sign out after their climbs. This took the illegal attraction out of the mix, and put some control into the system. It also allowed the rangers to keep an eye on the more dangerous and destructive elements- city slickers with little knowledge of how to act in a natural environment.

Having seen this play out, I sometimes wonder if tree climbing will follow in the same path. The more climbers out there, the more it becomes a non issue as far as chasing down the climbers. It sort of borders on civil disobedience in some respects. But it is also like voting. The more people that vote (climb), the more it becomes accepted, if for no other reason than it is more visible. The visibility issue thing again.

I personally have been told to come out of trees. It’s happened to me about 6 times. I always come down, make polite conversation, do the educational dance, and leave.

So I want to revisit a question I once asked here years ago.

Are there others out there that are being asked to come down out of the trees? How frequently do you get busted? Any charges against you for climbing? Did anyone loose their gear as a result?

Peter Treeman Jenkins
Founder
TCI

I mostly climb on private property with permission. City parks, state parks, national parks, national forests and wildlife preserves have all proven good to climb in, as long as you don't get caught. Asking permission to climb in a public area that my tax dollars are paying for seems silly and demeaning to me but may be effective with lots of effort and time.

I would suggest the following:

1.Stealthy approach
2.Only targeting trees off the beaten path. A tree that a park ranger or police office can yell at you from their car is not a wise tree to climb at all.
3.Don't get caught
4.Some parks may have a "no rock climbing policy" but rarely a "no tree climbing policy" on the books. This may help after being caught.
5.If you are caught; don't protest and chain yourself to the tree just leave and come back another day or another time or during shift change of the local authorities. Sure you can ask or try to explain, but we all know what the answer will be after the fact.

Also the US is filled with thousand of acres of "no man's land" so to speak, like the strips of narrow land between rivers and roads, or along rail road tracks and streams. These forgotten strips of land are often owned by cities or other public works that offer many unique climbing experiences.For example the local city owns lots of river frontage in our area with many climbing options. Another example might be undeveloped city owned woods next to a park.

Asking for permission is best on private property. Asking for permission on public property from my experience results in no climbing.

Good comments Greenluck, the only part I'd disagree with is climbing in national parks, there's no point antagonizing parks service personnel. National parks are focal point locations loaded with visitors causing rangers all kinds of problems, best thing to do is follow the rules and keep out of the ranger's hair. Unless of course there is permission to climb.

My view on ninja is I can't really enjoy a climb if I'm worried about being caught, the whole point of climbing for me is to focus on being in the woods and forget about day-to-day worries and pressures of life. That's why if I don't have explicit permission I go for locations that are "ninja-lite", meaning there is never any problem with anyone challenging my right to climb and I don't have to worry about it or be sneaky.
-AJ

Greenluck brings up a good point about the "no mans land" areas. We have a lot of that here, and I make good use of it. One of my favorite places to climb is in a grove of trees that are owned by the Municiple Water Authority. It's posted by them. But they never patrol it or bother anyone who goes in there. It's a high use area for dog walkers, swimmers, fishermen, short term campers,... You get the idea. I happen to do all of the above in this tract of land + climb a few trees. It's been this way for decades. Definately don't ask, don't tell. Although it's only a matter of time before someone who is someone hears about what I'm up to and starts asking questions. To tell you the truth, I'm kinda looking forward to that day. Although I'd just as soon that it'd not be for a while on down the road. Until then,...ninja lite.

Ninja -lite. Great new term. Moss- we’ll rack that one up as another Moss original. Sounds like a soft approach to uhhhhhhhhh....unauthorized climbs. Add a little “don’t ask, don’t tell” philosophy and it seems climbers are good to go. You are right. There are so many buffer areas to explore. It’s true. There really are places to climb. The creek and waterways climbs have huge trees too. Better wildlife watching.

A tactic I have used is to cut a concealed entrance to target trees. Here’s how it works. Bushwhack in to find that great climbing tree. It’s usually covered up in cat briars and vines. I bring a few tree inspection tools with me. I wear thorn resistant clothing- especially long sleeves and long pants. I’ll hide my gear first. I’ll then go in with a really sharp machete- one I’ve put a fine stone to for a razor edge, and hack a path to the nearest trail. A sharp hand pruner is helpful too. But I leave the entrance to the blazed path somewhat wild to retain the “impenetrable” feel. I’ll let the natural growth act as guardians. I’ve never had anyone try to approach my tree if they have to cut their way in. I will of course be wearing earth tones. I’ll call in GPS locations to my wife if I am doing a solo climb. Reception is much better from the treetops.

Moss. Tell us how you hide your gear. Remember how you hid you pack on that white pine climb we did. You had that cover you put over your gear. It made your pack totally invisible. Where did you get that cover? Does it pack up tight?

Peter Treeman Jenkins
Founder
TCI

In the subject of gear hiding: I wrapped my Big Shot poles in black plastic, which includes a sleeve thaat covers the Aluminium ends and a drawstring black pouch to go over the yellow shot pouch. This and my large rucksack with black cover are stashed in the undergrowth and nobody has ever seen them. They've seen me in the tree a few times and are usually amused or tell me to be careful, which is nice of them!

A good and cheap way to hide your stuff is to go to a fabric store, and buy a couple of yards of camo pattern cloth. You can even sew on a few "leaves" to make it like a Ghilly suit for improved invisibility. So all you do is throw it over your stuff like a tarp while you're aloft. Cheap and easy. Food for thought though,...I have a nice forrest green & black day pack that i use as a rope bag for my hike ins. I just throw it in a nearby bush, or maybe toss a few leaves over it and it's almost impossible to see. Last year while In my urban grove, I was up about 50' and a dog walker came by my tree. Never saw me, but the dog sniffed out my pack. It looked like he was going to lift his leg and do his thing all over my pack. I was just about to yell at it when his owner called him back. So you might want to take "water repellency" into consideration if you go the camo tarp route.

treeman wrote:

Moss. Tell us how you hide your gear. Remember how you hid you pack on that white pine climb we did. You had that cover you put over your gear. It made your pack totally invisible. Where did you get that cover? Does it pack up tight?

Ahh, you remembered, I use it out of habit, even when there's less than zero percent chance that someone will approach the tree.

I use "mossy oak breakup" camo netting . I bought an 8' x 10' piece of it 15 years ago for wildlife photography. I've since cut it into four pieces, one piece covers all my gear on the ground, as mentioned, it makes things invisible at 20 feet. It balls up a little less than the size of a softball and weighs nearly nothing.
-AJ

Getting busted climbing by the Mayor

I went for a Sunday climb this February in a small village park with many old growth trees. I have climbed several times at this location without problems. As I was setting my line in the tree a white truck with the village seal on the door pulled into the grass near where I was climbing. I thought oh boy here we go.

Two maintenance workers hop out of the truck and walk right past me, the tree and all my equipment. They seemed preoccupied on checking a electric control box near the edge of the park. After several minutes they jump back in the truck and leave. During the time they were there, I continued to set up my climbing line and saddle and go about my business.

After they left, I started ascending the tree on an SRT set-up. After reaching my tie in point. I used my lanyard to secure myself while making a few attempts to pitch my throw bag higher in the sycamore tree. After about 3 throws, I hit my target and isolated the limb I needed. As I was taking a break and enjoying some water (about 80 ft. up), I noticed a newer unmarked truck pull in and double-park in front of my truck, blocking me in.

An older man gets out of the truck and begins to survey the tree tops. After a minute and some squinting he locates me in the tree and begins the long walk down the hill to the bottom of the sycamore. I thought oh boy here we go again.

About half way down the hill the older man stops and while out of breath shouts “What are you doing?”

I shout back “practicing my rope skills and getting some exercise.” This seems to confuse the older man, so I added while smiling “Do you want to go for a climb?”

This seemed to catch the older man off guard. He seemed to seriously consider my offer for a moment. He then laughed and said “Are you kidding, the walk down this hill about killed me!”

I chuckled a little then said “Hold on sir, I’ll come down to talk to you” With that I rappelled out of the tree in a quick and efficient manor, and was face to face with the older man at the base of the tree. He seemed impressed with my ability to come down so quickly and was debating on what to say.

As he was eyeing my equipment, I notice his hat had several letters on it, ending in FD. Thinking quickly on my feet, I asked, “Are you with the fire department, sir? I hope you didn’t get any calls about me.”

He stated that he didn’t work for the fire department and that he has the Mayor of the village. Surprised by this I quickly took my gloves off and introduced myself while shaking his hand.
I explained what I was doing, and some of the equipment I was using. “Not many rock cliffs around our area but lots of beautiful old growth trees” I said as I pointed out all the safety gear and cambium savers being used to protect the tree. I ended by asking “I hope I’m not doing something wrong?’

To my surprise the Mayor said ”No, I don’t think you are doing anything wrong. Some of my maintenance workers told me that someone was climbing trees in the park and wanted to know if we were having work done on them. Since I didn’t know anything about it, I decided to come down and see what was going on.”

He added “Have fun, and don’t fall” With this he flashed a smile, then started the long walk back up the hill to his truck.

If the Mayor's okay with it then you've got the freedom of the town I'd say!

Then only time I was told off for climbing a tree was as a teenager when a woman came out of her house and accused me of trying to look into her bathroom. That wasn't very likely - she was 60-odd years old!

On Saturday my new climbing friend Ben (thanks for putting him in touch Moss) and I did some climbs on a ridge overlooking the Thames near the picturesque town of Marlow. I had just successfully used my new 60ft motion lanyard to traverse between 2 Oaks 25ft apart (Ben has footage, which may get uploaded sometime), when a man walking with a young boy shouts up "Hi Ben! Still looking for lichens?" They start chatting like they're friends and I'm introduced before long. After he continues on his walk I ask Ben if that's a friend from Uni. He says no, it's the who owns the house beside the Oak Ben climbed last weekend.

If anything tree climbing makes it easier to make friends on the ground. If a single guy starts chatting with a man walking with his son in the woods, that person would find it a bit invasive but being perched 60ft up in a tree is too interesting for most people to ignore.

After the Oaks we climbed a 115ft Giant Sequoia with a flattened top. I stood right on the top, my head well above the highest branches and 40 ft above the rest of the canopy. There was a serene view of the valley with Old Father Thames meandering lazily in the sunset towards Henley, the ancient erosion terraces falling into shadow and a jet vapour trail drifting across the moon.

The bad news is that I didn't take any photos while I was up there. The perfect excuse to go back in the spring and do it again!



Michael

Great story Greenluck, your good attitude and communication skills won the day. Where I am there are laws on the books against climbing trees on city land so I have a bit more to overcome. Getting there bit by bit.
-AJ