Saddles with floating bridges

I'm very happy with my New Tribe saddle overall. Sometimes though when I'm leaning out or twisting so that I'm facing away from my tie-in the saddle is forced to slide around my waist. It works but can be awkward. I'd rather not be fighting against my saddle in this situation.

Looking at the various saddles with floating bridges, like the Butterfly II for example, it looks like they would solve the positioning problem described above.

Any of you climbing on a floating bridge saddle and do you prefer one type over another?

Thanks,
-moss

Likewise…
I too find that needing to spin around and lean out & away from the tie in point can be very aggravating. I have seen the roller type saddles you mentioned. Also note the HDP-roller (Sherrill cat No. 15620) which requires a belt designed for such activity, (Versatile).

Seems like this set-up might have a tendency to put the hardware up, under your chin once it’s under vertical load, yes/no?

Which leads to the following post. . .

While we’re on the subject of saddles and positioning…
I have always had difficulty using a saddle with a single waist mounted tie-in point. On SRT a single tie-in point saddle is wonderful (obviously) but on conventional friction hitch double rope climbing, the single tie-in point type saddle has a tendency to cram everything together making it very difficult to manipulate the lines at your hands. Additionally, it has a tendency to put all the gear & rigging up high and in your face rather than at your chest.



Conversely, a saddle that provides a way to tie-in low & wide, keeps the rigging out of your face and split apart to allow for “easy on the hands” hitch manipulation.

So my point here is: Single tie-in point saddles are extremely popular for conventional friction hitch climbing so it must be something ”I” am doing wrong, no?

Need suggestions on this...

Great post!
Electrojake, can you post this also on the Treebuzz site to get even more expert input?
I have this dilemma also and have been doing a lot of research. I have a Newtribe also and am looking for a floating D for easier positioning.
I believe the low tie in saddles(w/o floating D) as shown by Electrojake above are not so popular because for many people the tie in is too low(depending on your build) and makes you top heavy throwing your weight back and therefore uncomforatable to stay upright and close to the rope. However, with a floating D, eventhough a low tie in point, the D bridge strap is long or loose enough to allow the point of attachment to be higher, at about navel or stomach height(while hanging) and thus gives a more even balance or center of gravity for many people keeping them more easily upright, which is at about the same height as the single tie in saddles(like Newtribe) and thus makes them very popular and comfortable also. So it seems no matter what saddle you get, the first important factor is that the height of the tie in point (while hanging) must give you balance depending on your build. Newtribe themselves suggest that the tie-in biner be at about stomach or just below chest level.
In my search for a saddle some solutions found to keep the ropes from jamming together or to have the equivalent of a floating D are as follows:
1) Petzl themselves has just very recently tried to address this dilemma by creating a portable floating D for arborists and have come out with a solution called the "Sidestraps" which you can see at
http://www.patrollersupply.com/store/cart_item_review.asp?itemID=1120
This virtually turns almost any saddle that is compatible into a floating D type. I'm sure this allows Petzl to sell more Navajo's etc. also. But it would allow you to keep your favorite saddle and also turn it into a floating D. Then you can use the fixed D for ascending and descending and switch to the floating D when in the tree or just always use the floating D.
2)The next solution for the jamming lines especially on a single point tie in saddle like Newtribe is to either invert the triangular shaped maillon screwlink so that the long (wider) portion of the link is facing up and thereby gives you a longer width on which to attach biners or an even better solution I recently discovered is to get a square shaped screwlink, which you can see (item #1782) at http://www.yatesgear.com/rescue/hardware/carabiners/index.htm
This will also stop the maillon from flipping around on you and also give you more space to attach more biners.
This is my 2 cents of info.
Safe climbin,
CharlieB.

I have solved the tight space for tie ins problem using a Petzl Paw rigging plate. This is the thick aluminum four-hole plate that could second as brass knuckles. It a pretty blue color too! My Petzl full body harness (Baobab model) sports one as does my New Tribe work saddle (I had my plate sewn in to the saddle).

You can attach the plate using two twisted stainless steel clevis. Make sure you crank it on tight or use a little lock tite. The Paw gives me room to clip in two climbing ropes and both ends of a lanyard, of which I use a daisy rope (arborist rope using a noose knot for adjustment). The triangular screw link attaches to the bottom of the Paw. It does not ride too high either.

Treeman,
How is the paw sewn in to the saddle if you also have a maillon at the bottom of it clasping the saddle together? Can you show a picture perhaps?
Also, since the maillon is horizontal on a Newtribe, that means the paw would then be vertical? Does this still separate your ropes?
Thanks,
CharlieB.

For what it's worth, I LOVE having the bridge on my saddle. I have like 9 possible attachment points on my saddle, and the bridge is my favorite. I like that I can double tie in to it, occasionally my flipline/lanyard gets clipped to it, and my climbing line is always clipped to it.

Can you buy one and hang in it for a while and see if you like how it feels?

love
nick

Thanks for commenting Nick. For purposes of comparison, would you mind telling us which brand/model saddle you're climbing on?
Thanks,
-moss

Ummm, I purposely DIDN'T specify what I have, as the bastardization I use is not endorsed by the maker of the saddle. I use the Buckingham Master II. I have splice a bridge onto the lower attachment points. They were NOT designed to be loaded in this manner, so....don't do it.

I also have the new Butterfly II, which I also like, but I'm not yet sure if it will ever become my favorite. I think I'll be on the MII for a while.

love
nick

I have posted the following as an example of 2 tie-in points preferably low & wide. It seemed charlieb was interested in some further info on this…

Shown below is the Buckingham/Sherrill “Master-II” about $200.00
This gets used for Friction-hitch and SRT. Nice saddle but be aware that it does not have a separately adjustable waist belt like the NewTribe and the ProSeries models.


Then there is the Buckingham/Sherrill “ProSeries Master” about $270.00
I feel very comfortable (safe) in this saddle. It’s great when working with tools. The leg straps are O.K. but could use some improvement, perhaps a re-design tweak is due here. It’s great for friction-hitch climbing but not to sweet for SRT.

And pictured below is the ever popular single tie-in point which I find to be ideal if you are doing SRT. Very comfy, very few snag points when squeezing between limbs in the canopy. Easy to sleep in as compared to the Buckingham units.


So charlieb, did that help?. . .

Also,
Treeman’s setup with the Petzl PAW device caught my attention. Great idea for a custom built saddle. Nice.

Thanks a lot guys, especially Electrojake.
I'm still trying saddles and will let ya'll know what happens. Waiting on the Petzl sidestraps right now which could change my Newtribe into a much better working saddle, and if that don't work, then I may try the Master II or Treemagic. Most suppliers will allow you to try them for so many days. So that's what I do. My friends laugh at me and call me the "return king", but at least eventually you find what you want.
Electro or Moss, have ya'll tried a floating D yet? Do ya'll know of a wide tie-in type saddle like Electro showed with a floating D? If not, maybe that's why Nick altered his.
Supposedly this does the trick when turning positions in the tree, according to many at the Treebuzz site.
Thanks for your help.
CharlieB.

First off I realize that my original question should have been about floating D's or other attachment configurations on a bridge, not a "floating bridge". Anyway you all got the idea.

Not sure I'm any closer to figuring out how I'll get to using a bridge/floating attachment on a saddle. Sounds like Nick is getting it right.

Nice pictures from Electrojake, great to see the different saddle rigs.

To answer charlieB's question, I haven't tried a bridge style saddle attachment yet.

Looking at the Petzl " bridge converter " that CharlieB mentioned, it doesn't look like it would work on a New Tribe saddle. If it does that would be a nice accessory
-moss

EJ,

In the bottom pic, the NT, I have another solution. Get a wider screw link and tie directly into it. Get rid of the biner. As a biner-based option I like using the big ISC biners. I can't remember the name right now. Gecko maybe??? I get nervous about having hardware any higher than the low part of my ribcage. In case there is any gear slap going on I don't want my pearly whites to get knocked out.

My saddle of choice is a BF II with a shorter bridge. I took off the webbing one and used a piece of 10.5mm gym rope. The rope goes through the shackles on the saddle and barrel knots are tied on the outboard side of the shackles. this is the factory approved method of replacing the bridge on the BF I. I have the small aluminum ring on the bridge to clip into.

It was probably over 15 years ago that I bought my first floating d, a Blair Ultralight. The saddle is still in good shape. That was the beginning of the end of my sore back. The saddle was one part of a regimen to take better care of my back. Being able to rotate into over-the-shoulder positions is easiest with a floater.

I use my NT saddle when I rec climb sometimes. It is really comfy but if I ever need to work over my shoulder It rotates a bit too much for me. It depends on the climb whether I use the NT or BF II.

About the photos in the post…
Agreed Tom, but please know that I posted that bottom picture as an example of a poor setup as discussed with charlieb.
As you can see, the hardware is in my face and it is quite difficult to operate the friction hitch due to "hand pinch" between the ropes.

I use my NewTribe saddle for SRT and my Buckingham for everything else.
If there was some way to stitch my NewTribe leg straps into my Buckingham saddle, I would be the happiest squirrel in the tree!

Also worth noting…
Tom, your photos & comments on this forum lately have helped me immensely. For casual climbers like myself, the input and comments I get here are truly my lifeline.

Sure I look forward to the point in time that I can tour around and do group climbs but until then, being a student of the TCI Forum has kept my climbing adventures safer and smarter.

Thanks again for taking the time to post the photos and explanations of your equipment.
Electrojake

Ej,

Where did your name come from?

I'd like to invite anyone to come over and see what is discussed at Treebuzz too.

http://www.treebuzz.com/

But...you have to promise not to abandon this site! There are plenty of good ideas and pictures on both sites.

The basic needs of a rec or pro climber are the same, comfort and safety.