Rock Climbing Harnesses

Hey guys, I've just started rock climbing, and would also like to get into tree climbing. I've gotten to the point where I'd like to get my own harness for rock climbing (so far I've been renting gym equipment, but I'll be climbing outside soon, where that isn't an option). I was thinking I'd like to kill two birds with one stone, and try to get a harness that would work well for both.

So far, it seems as if rock climbing harnesses need to be able to take the sudden shock of a fall (which tree saddles don't seem to be quite as good at), whereas tree saddles are more for long-time suspensions (but rock climbing harnesses don't seem to be built for comfort). So it sounds like all I need is a rock climbing harness with wider leg straps and extra padding for comfort... am I incorrect in thinking this?

Are there any experienced dual climbers, that are familiar with both sports that can recommend a harness for me?

So far I've been looking at these, as they sound well padded, and I won't have to wait for shipping, since a store near me has them in stock:
Black Diamond Iris
Petzl Luna
Petzl Adjama

Also - I am female. Rock climbing harnesses made for females are definitely more comfortable than the ones made for male - does it make a difference in tree climbing harnesses?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks guys!

I am not a rock climber, in fact I have never once climbed rock, but I am a professional arborist so take this for what its worth. I was told that rock climbing harness and tree climbing saddles are not interchangable. The reasons you have listed are probable the main reasons. I actually heard that it is un safe to climb trees in a rock climbing harness. I think you may be out of luck with killing 2 birds, but see what others here have to say. Good luck.

Rock climbing harnesses are not suitable for Tree climbing for all the reasons you stated.
You need two different harnesses one for rock climbing and one for tree climbing.

I've done a lot of climbing on rocks and trees. I actually use my rock climbing harness for both. My climbing methods involve using a rope to get to the first branches, then climbing on the tree itself to the top, using adjustable lanyards for protection. The harness is not very comfortable to hang in, as you can imagine, but it's only for a short time so I don't mind.

However, the way most tree climbers do it is to use a series of rope pitches to climb the tree. That way you are always hanging in your harness below your next anchor point. This is safest and least harmful (for the tree), especially if you're a beginner. If I climbed a tree using this method then there's no way I would want to spend the whole time hanging in a rock climbing harness!

Michael

Psha, First I want to say welcome to the TCI board and to the Tree Climbing Community.
I have both types of harnesses and have used both. I definitely prefer my New Tribe Harness for tree climbing and the main reason is comfort and safety. Tree climbing involves \"hanging \" from a rope for fairly large periods of time that causes the blood to slow and even stop circulating into your legs if you are not careful. Read more about Hanging Syndrome. (http://ecommerce.hysafetech.com/htmdocs/news/index.php?id=7)

My personal observations on using a rock climbing harness while tree climbing are:+ more pressure on the back and pelvic area due to the lack of a wide back support, tingling sensation in the legs due to poor circulation of blood to lower extremities. The rock climbing harness do not have (Side D's) a place to attach a lanyard while in the tree to do switch overs. More pressure over the back and rib-cage as the small belt puts more stress on a narrower portion of the back and lower stomach area.

I am not claiming to an expert on harnesses or anything for that matter but after several years of doing rock climbing and 6 years of tree climbing I have gained a good appreciation for a nice NT arborist harness with wide back support, wide legs straps and conveniently located soft side \"D's\". I have purchased tree New Tribe harness and have used several models of rock climbing harness.

I would suggest you take some Tree climbing classes where you are able to test several types of harness and other gear and them you can make an educated evaluation of the alternatives. Whatever works for you that is what is critically important.

Agree with everything said. I climb trees frequently with 2 rock climbers. One of them started on a rock harness, once he tried a tree harness he couldn't go back to the painful alternative. The other never even attempted to use his rock harness, he was an experienced enough rock climber to know that it wouldn't work. As was mentioned, the only practical way to use a rock harness for tree climbing is on a tree with closely spaced branches like a conifer. Your weight is always supported by your arms and legs, not by the harness.

You can get a New Tribe Basic tree climbing harness without spending much money, it's well worth it. NT harnesses are rated for fall arrest, same as a rock harness. In general most (affordable) arborist harnesses are designed as work positioning harnesses and can be uncomfortable for the long hang times common in recreational tree climbing. Work climbers try to get in and out of the tree fast (time is money) and spend a lot of time on the tree or branches as opposed to climbing the rope. Rec climbers tend to climb more off the tree (climb the rope) and spend much more time in the tree so they like to have a very comfortable harness. NT harnesses are designed for that use.
-moss

TENGU saddles are the BEST!

Hey all, thanks so much for the feedback (and for the welcome, oldtimer)! So it seems pretty clear that I can't use a rock climbing harness for tree climbing... but what about buying a tree climbing harness and using that for rock climbing? Are there any tree climbing harnesses that would be able to absorb falls the way a rock climbing harness would?

also, I found this harness (2nd from bottom, the Metolius Waldo):
http://www.rescueresponse.com/store/arborist_saddles.html
listed as an arborist saddle, but I have seen it elsewhere for rock climbing as well, so am I wrong to think I could use it for both? (also, are those loops just for gear, or could I use them to attach the lanyard and do a switchover as oldtimer mentioned?

Thanks!!

That looks better than a rock harness, but I question if they really should have included that with arborist saddles. Those loops are just for gear, do not use them as life support. The ratings that they have listed for the gear loops are well under what is commonly accepted as \"safe\" for life support. For me, I want my gear to be rated at 23 to 24kN for life support. I know others will climb on less, but I dont think many climbers would argue that those loops are for gear only. I really think that saddles/harness are so important to your safety that you should have a seperate one for tree and a seperate on for rock climbing. Each type has specific design features that are necessary for safe climbing. I really dont think there will be a safe solution that will kill two birds with one stone. Again, keep in mind that I climb trees and have never climbed rocks.

I have a simple Rock Climbing Saddle that I use under my regular tree NT climbing saddle when I am spending the night in a treeboat because that one does not have any gear loops along the back. When I reach the branch were I will spend the night I'll do all the treeboat rigging while in the New Tribe saddle and just take if off when I get in bed and stay tied to the rock harness to sleep only. In the morning I put on my regular saddle and descend carrying all the sleeping gear. That rock harness cost less than $30.00 at REI. That could be an alternative for you. If you do mostly rock climbing then the one the photo link that you sent sounds like something that may work for you for both activities. Since I have never inspected that harness this is just my Opinion based on the photo only. Ask the guys at rescue-response to see what is his opinion since he has done both types of climbing for what I remember from his postings on this and other websites. He has some strong opinions on some topics; so take his advise with a \"grain of salt\".

I've studied the photo of the Metolius Waldo. The Belay loops at the front look similar to those on a rock harness. The straps joining the leg loops look a bit thinner than those on a typical rock harness but it's hard to tell from a photo. There's also the rating of the other components to consider: buckles, stitching etc.

A factor 2 fall while rock climbing would exert several times more force on a harness than simply hanging in it - so I would agree with emr that anything which isn't specifically specified as a rock climbing harness should not be used for rock climbing.

$30-$50 (if that's what they cost over there) has to be worth it for the peace of mind

Michael

michaeljspraggon wrote:

...A factor 2 fall while rock climbing would exert several times more force on a harness than simply hanging in it - so I would agree with emr that anything which isn't specifically specified as a rock climbing harness should not be used for rock climbing.

$30-$50 (if that's what they cost over there) has to be worth it for the peace of mind

Michael

Bear in mind that the New Tribe harnesses are rated for fall arrest but they would be overkill for rock climbing.
-moss