Tree cambium contact ???

I have seen this question on the site more than once and have yet to see an actual answer to it. It was in a debate/discussion on "freeclimbing" between alot of people in other threads(general discussions..sharp end of the rope i believe), I'll set the quotes on the one I found first and see what if any answer i might get.

(Quote between Icabod and Bareroots)

"in response to icabod, you suggest that hand and foot contact with the cambium to be deliterious. i climb barefoot, always. it heightens the sensual contact and gives better grip and feedback of when a slip might be about to occur.

do you never make contact with the tree? do you not abrade the cambium when limb walking or tree surfing? I think one can be overly sensitive to these majestic giants we befriend. these are hardy creatures. i cannot abide willful damage but we need not clothe them with cotton wool."

isn't contact..contact ??
just curious.
slingshot

Depends how you climb. You can abuse a tree or you can tread lightly on it. Thick barked species like oaks can handle more foot traffic. A thin skinned beech requires a little more delicacy in foot movements. Barefoot could be very painful on a rough barked species. Barefoot on a beech is sublime (in the summer).
-moss

Going from the outside of the tree you have bark, phloem (inner bark), cambium, and xylem (wood). If you breach the bark, the phloem and cambium underneath are vulnerable to attack by insects or disease because they are good food. Breaching the bark is more or less easy depending on the type of tree and the age of the trunk (older stems usually accumulate thicker bark). Beeches, aspens, birches and many others have thin bark. Oaks seem to have very thick tough bark. Trees are more vulnerable to damage in the spring and early summer when the cambium is very active (the cells of the cambium are thinner then).

Bark gets broken a lot over a tree's lifetime. Trees have defenses and wound healing ability to ward off attacks, but sometimes these are overcome. I regularly climb large white pines, and many of these have patches of bark taken off by porcupines. The trees are somewhat damaged but still overall mechanically sound. Other trees are hard hit.

So what's the upshot of all this? Pay attention to the trees you climb, especially the ones you've climbed before. If you see damage on places you've been before, re-think what you are doing.

Basically the question i was asking originally in the thread was does it matter the type of climbing we do... free climbing or roped climbing both climbers touch and walk the branches.. if we are all carefull with what we are doing neither would be detrimental to the tree.. it the original dicussion i found it looked like they were using this argument as to why someone should not freeclimb a tree(besides the safety) and no one has yet answered that specifically.

just prodding a little...

slingshot

I've climbed trees for over 30 years, reclimbed many that I climbed before and reclimbed others where I was probably the 2nd, 3rd or 4th climber. The only damage that I've seen was from not making proper cuts. Leaving stubs, rips or cutting off branch collars.

Many years ago, before throwlines were part of my kit, I would use a ladder to get part way into the tree and then move up via lanyards or advancing my climbing line. From the groung I spotted the 'perfect' tie in point in a hackberry. When I got to the TIP and was about to flip my climbing rope in the branch union I noticed that someone else had done the same in years past. After studing the tree I realized that a utility line clearance trimmer had worked the back of the tree. The bark of the tree in that union was worn away down to the wood. The tree was growing new callous tissue to seal the wound. Since I needed to have a TIP in that area I decided to move just a little and not reinjure the tree.

After spending time pre-pruning trees for Tree Climbing Championships I can assure you that bark flakes do get worn away after 30-50 climbers go through the stations. There is more damage done to the TCC trees when they're prepared for the comps. The trees are generally over-pruned in order to make a course that can be repeated without damaging the tree more or putting climbers at risk.

Be careful of the tree species listed above. Thin barked trees in the early growing season are really easy to damage. It isn't generally a concern if the corky bark flakes off. When the soft cambium is exposed you're doing damage.

If anyone is so concerned about having an impact on a tree and they advocate only climbing and accessing using a rope I think that there needs to be a discussion. Any tree that isn't healthy enough to sustain a bit of an impact from tree climging should only be climbed for purposes much higher than rec climbing. Overall, trees suffer, but live, after sustaining much more damage than losing a twig or some bark flakes. Think of the impact on the soil and small shrubs when we might trample them to gain access to our favorite trees.

At one time there was a 'No Impact' philosophy abided by when using natural areas. That is not possible unless humans don't even enter the area. It's been modified to 'Minimum Impact' or 'Leave no trace' This is a much more attainable practice.

enjoy climbing!

Tom

Originally posted by slingshot
Basically the question i was asking originally in the thread was does it matter the type of climbing we do... free climbing or roped climbing both climbers touch and walk the branches.. if we are all carefull with what we are doing neither would be detrimental to the tree.. it the original dicussion i found it looked like they were using this argument as to why someone should not freeclimb a tree(besides the safety) and no one has yet answered that specifically.

I think the answer is that if the climber is paying attention equally while they're in the tree, there should be no difference in wear and tear on the tree between roped climbing and free climbing. Roped climbers can have contact with the tree equal to what a freeclimber would. It really depends on the tree, the climber, the route, etc.

A roped climber could climb with nearly zero tree contact (to make a point) but what would be the fun of that? This is rec climbing that we're talking about.
-moss

Something we're not talking about are arboreal lichens and mosses (in temperate zone forests) and the richer arboreal flora and fauna the closer you get to the equator. It is definitely easy to disturb these communities in trees. I try to minimize disturbing lichens when I climb. But then again I'm a certified bleeding heart.
-moss

Second Law of thermodynamics:
All systems move towards disorder.

Forensic science depends on the fact that every action has a equal and opposite reaction, in other words, there is nothing you can do that will leave the world exactly as you found it.

My point in the original thread is that roped climbing has far less impact on the trees that we love and climb. The tree hugging activities of a free climber, or at least one that is not simply suicidal, are going to cause far more damage to the tree.

I have seen large pine trees on the edge of trails that are in danger of having serious damage due to folks walking by grabbing on, or leaning to take a nice picture, it's the same with freeclimbing. Hugging, grasping, grabbing, all in order to prevent the sudden painful onset of ground rash. When one climbs roped in the only nexessary point of contact is at the tip, which can be minimized by use of a cambium saver. One has the ability to pay attention to the placement of one's feet and hands to minimize contact with symbotic growth on the bark of the tree, as well as preventing damage by careless footfalls.

Plus the fact that freeclimbing is unnecessarily dangerous.

Climb Safe!
Icabod

I hoped you would get in on this seeing that it was a discussion between you and bareroots.

All safety stuff aside, lets say im backed up free soloing a tree, slow and easy.. i'm still not really seeing the difference between you branch walking or surfing or what ever you do in the tree that includes you contacting the tree in any way and myself doing my thing. I must say i'm not trying to start an argument but get a real idea of what the tree can withstand(understanding also the different bark types) I agree with Tom Dunlap I must say.

any other comments or ideas on the subject??

slingshot

Icabod's 'Human Influence' has a lot of good thought in it.

Seeing trail side tree damage shows the extreme that can happen. Look at the trees that TCI uses in Atlanta. Probably the most climbed trees in the world. There's no doubt that climbing has had an impact but are they damaged? Tests could determine how healthy they are compared to yard and woods trees nearby.

It is going to take a LOT of tree climbing to see injury to a tree. Damage is hard to quantify. The impact of us being near the trees has been mentioned. Damaging mosses lichens and other smaller organisms is important to pay attention to.

I believe, but don't know for certain, that the trees are happier to have us climb them than to stand alone for all of their lives. The way I see it is the same feeling I get when I play with my nieces. Sometimes they want to do things when I don't but I follow their lead. Anything that I want to do can get done later. My life is fuller because of spending time with them.

A couple of weeks ago I climbed a double leader chestnut tree in central Wisconsin with another arbo. We hung out in opposite leads and chatted for close to an hour. While we were in the tops we played around a bit, swinging a jumping. On the way down we skinned off the deadwood. After we cleared up our gear and scattered the trimmed limbs I looked at how nice the trees looked. I truly believe, but don't know, that the tree is happier because we were there that day. The other trees are a bit envious because they didn't get the attention and scrubbing. While Dave and I were setting our throwlines we both had to break out some smaller limbs because of snags. I wish that hadn't happen but it was part of the 'friction in the machine' that I'm comfortable having.

Be aware of damage and injury. Do as little as possible. Climb trees. Get others to climb trees.

Tom

Tom's eloquent post gets to the main point of climbing: your relationship with the tree. Every time you climb you deepen your understanding of the tree (and yourself). A tree is stoic and mostly silent as you climb but speaks volumes with the challenges and enjoyment that it offers. It's a natural response to offer respect in the way you climb the tree.



-moss