Big Trees in Cali

Nick,
Thanks for going out on a limb, so to speak, for the rest of us in the tree climbing community. Sorry that your name is the one that the rangers now know. It is slightly heartening, however, to know that they don't have an outright ban on tree climbing.

I have never found any federal regulations that prohibit recreational tree climbing in national forests, as long as spikes are not used and the trees are not harmed. I'm sure there are many, many redwoods and other giant conifers that we can legally climb in the West Coast area, or at least climb while the ranger is on the other side of the forest....

It seems their local rules of climbing off the trail and away from other visitors is about what many of us experienced in the giant tulip poplars at the Joyce Kilmer Memorial Forest in western North Carolina.

Phone call to the Sequoia National Forest Service Supervisors Office let me in on the secret. The National Forest is the place to be. They allow camping where ever you'd like. There are free permits that must first be obtained. I didn't ask about climbing yet. I am going to call back and ask them that when they DON'T know my name. I think there's hope!

love
nick

Nick,

Embedded in your post may be your "Prussik" loop-hole. If the National Forest Service allows you to camp wherever you like...and you have a treeboat...how else will you get your treeboat set. Tada You can climb by default!

This post was written entirely for fun as some of the recent postings have been rather caustic so I hope that you will enjoy my response.

I also wish you and everyone on the message board a great Thanksgiving and weekend and hope that we can all get in at least a little "safe" treeclimbing!

Be well!!!!

Icabod brought up some points in another thread that I thought I'd talk about for a sec.

One might wonder why be so upfront with the National Forest about me climbing in the sequoia groves. I've gotten some emails from people suggesting it's best to maintain a "out of sight out of mind" mentality.

Here's my thinking. I don't want to have to hide from t he rangers or any other officials. I don't want to put other's at risk if we go climbing there. Right now, there are a lot of places with no precedent about tree climbing. All it takes is for one whacko climber to go in there and piss off the wrong ranger, then BAM- no more tree climbing in the NFs for any of us. (I know it's not THAT easy...but you get the point). I have this goal/dream of having ALL of the US open to rec climbing. This won't happen, but I know we can open places. There are organizations that fight to keep rocks open to rock climbers. They deal with government agencies and private property owners. Tree climbers should have that same mentality. I am starting right now. I'm talking to people. Making phone calls, email, and typing letters. Will I stop? No. Will I succeed? Maybe not. Will I still climb in areas that I haven't recieved "permission" to climb in? Probably. Actually, yes I will.

I won't climb where I was told not to. The King's Canyon/Sequoia National Park Service has already written me a letter saying not to climb the Seq's there. So no climbing...next step is to write a letter back asking them to change their mind.

I just wanna climb.

love
nick

Go for it, Nick, and hopefully you won't piss off the wrong ranger. Of course, there are some rangers out there (not all) who forget that they're working for the American people. Maybe their attitudes will change, maybe they won't...!

Your comment on the rock climbers struck home. We have a beautiful mountain about 40 minutes from my home that has a fantastic rock face several hundred feet high. The mountain itself is in an isolated section of national forest that is surrounded by privately owned land. A few years ago the landowners managed to block the only road access to the mountain, and now climbers must hike about three miles each way with their gear. The U.S. Forest Service has made a lot of rumblings about a new road (the U.S. Army uses the mountain for training and has reportedly offered to build the road at their expense) but has so far managed to stall it for unknown reasons. Maybe they just want to control the number of climbers using the mountain.

I'm like you; I don't want to see us banned from most public forests just because some wacko tree climber messed things up for everybody. Right now, I'm just working on one ranger at a time by trying to show him or her what we're doing. So far, there hasn't been much opposition ("But I better not catch you using spikes on my trees," said one ranger).

The goal of every treeclimber should be to make sure that the non-climbing public doesn't become the anti-climbing public.

Fine posts, Nick and Bill.

I fully agree: be polite, follow the rules, be knowledgeable, but be persistent (while still being polite).

I spend a week in a 10,100-acre WV state forest each year. This year, I found a good tree and climbed it without asking permission. Next year, on day one, I will talk with the head ranger (I think his proper title is "Superintendent"), ask him about climbing, and offer to give him a demonstration (regardless of his response).

He's a nice chap--quite friendly--and we have talked several times. I am sure that he would be open to a demo, even if his initial answer might be "no." I'll be persistent (and polite).

I'm definitely glad there are climbers like Nick, Bill, and many others who think like them out there!

As I understand it, we will never need Permission to climb in an national forest, though knowing that we wont get chased off, or have our equipment consficated would be great. The national forests are resources set aside fot the american people. It is not a park, but rather an area where the forest is protected and made available to us. You can get a permit to cut down trees for firewood in the Uwharrie, where I climb.
Nick what you are doing is commendable. Here in NC we have gained access to a climbing in a park that was once a state park (home of the state champion Cottonwood), though I've yet to take advantage of it. I wrote letters for two years before an accidental meeting with the right person who made it possible with one phone call. That is why I stress that I would like my TCI membership dues to eventually go towards networking and lobbying. We need to meet the right people, instead of just the poor overworked rangers who ufortunatly have to spend most of thier time policing the forests. There are problems with drug use, drug growth, alcohol abuse, resource theft, and crimes like auto theft and burgarly at trail heads to combat. I am willing to bet that if we made the powers that be understand that we are out there to protect and use the resources, not abuse or damage that we will be welcomed. I hike off trail, way off trail, in my NF to seek out new climbing areas, and bring a bag along to pick up cans and other garbage that I always find. Lets get a group of wilderness climbers togather (Swampy Joe are you listening) and get a letter of some sort put togather to send to the National Forest Directors in the areas that we frequent to let them know why we are there, and to let them know how we are willing to help out.
You guys make me proud to be a member. I see good things in our future.

All my recent calls lately have told me that all sequoia groves in the national FORESTS are closed now and for the next few months due to snow (these roads are not maintained/plowed).

So I guess right now I just have to wait until spring. In the mean-time, I will do what I can do educate myself about the scattered groves of sequoias around south-central CA.

Anyone else been to a sequoia grove? I've been to one, in the national park.

love
nick

Originally posted by Jim W
... This year, I found a good tree and climbed it without asking permission. Next year, on day one, I will talk with the head ranger. . .

I do wish to be graceful about posting my opinion here. My intention is not to agitate but. . . Do you really think that any authority is going to give you open permission to climb?

Have you ever done any mountain biking?
The fad really caught-on in the late 1980’s and peaked in popularity in the mid 90’s. But think back, before it was a fad, people occasionally rode their bicycles through the park. No one paid much attention. Then it became “cool” to motocross on a bicycle, hence mountain biking was born.

http://www.imba.com/about/index.html

Mountain biking people seemed to spring up everywhere. Some local papers reported it as an epidemic! By the mid 1990’s the “NO BIKING” signs started getting posted at every trail head in the land.

For goodness sake, there were more places in which I could go out and beat my 4x4 truck in the mud, than I would dare take my damn bicycle.

I am hoping this recreational tree climbing stuff does not get too popular too quick, for if it becomes a “fad” we are all sure to become outlaws.
The only hope we have (and it’s a long shot) is if you could climb on park lands with a permit. If you are certified and licensed, you could climb in allotted areas. Similar to a hunting / firearms permit. But THAT sort of stuff would take a ton of legislation.

So Nick, Icabod, Jim, Bill, and the tons of people here that read but don’t post. . . Rather than announce yourself to the rangers, simply be as discrete as possible when you climb and hope that recreational tree climbing stays as an oddity and does not turn into a fad.

When Super-Sport Tree Climbing magazines start showing up at news stands, it’s too late… the NO CLIMBING signs will be posted at every trail head in the land.

Hello, "Electrojake"--

Yep, I hear you--what you say certainly has merit. I've been of two minds about what to do since I began climbing.

One way to go on this would be to do diligent research about a prospective climbing area (such as the state forest/park I mentioned) and assume that if there is no rule against climbing, it's okay to climb. If an official happens by and says that climbing is not permitted, the climber can honestly say that s/he has read the rules and climbing seemd to be okay. Will that knowledge of "the rules" cause the official to change his/her mind? Probably not.

Maybe one thing to keep in mind is the old adage we've all heard about attorneys asking questions: they don't ask any they don't know the answer to.

I can be swayed pretty easily on this issue. It'll be interesting to read input from some of the other few percent who post.

Nick? Bill? Joe? etc.

Elctrojake,

You didn't remember the entire post...

I believe I wrote something in there about walking off trail with a stupid look on my face to distract any attention I might have commanded.

I aggree. Most if not all authority has the "No Response" built in. But then again we are talking about taking these steps for the very reason that we do not want to see "No tree climbing" signs posted. I think the surest way to prevent permenant ejection is to let the owner, or steward, of the property know what you plan to do there. Trying to hide suggests you know you are doing something wrong. If he says no, you have your answer. It's up to you then if you want to tresspass, you take all the risks.

I've had both positive response and negative response. In the NF, as long as you are following the laws and not hunting out of season, pretty much anything goes. That said I don't ask permission in the NF, if a ranger happens to question me I'll tell him what I'm up to, pun intended, and invite him into the tree with me.

Climb safe!
Icabod

I have played all of the games mentioned. I’ve asked for permission, given presentations, taken rangers up, been thrown out, been discovered and let climb for that one day, threatened with jail time (I got caught in a public place. My trousers were even zipped!), night time ninja climbs with a tactical team, hung protest banners with community support, unlawful tree sitting with threatening authorities below who did not like banners, had the police called up on me for being in a public park climbing, policeman calling downtown looking for the no climb ordinance while I waited aloft—and on an on and on.

It used to be unlawful to rock climb in Rocky Mountain National Park too. The rangers finally gave up because Smokey the Bear was out chasing climbers while tourists trashed the park. Demand- as so often- drives the machine. It will eventually happen with tree climbers to- the demand driven side that is. Take heart, you tree climbing pioneers. You are the ones doing the work before the greater populace shows up. Enjoy the quiet in the treetops while you can. There will be laughing people in the treetops along with the birds. It is just a matter of time.

Treeman says:

You are the ones doing the work before the greater populace shows up. Enjoy the quiet in the treetops while you can. There will be laughing people in the treetops . . . . It is just a matter of time.

Yes, that's what I secretly am afraid of--the time when "everyone" is climbing trees. It is interesting to me that I have heard several of our fellow enthusiasts say similar things--that despite wanting to share the "hobby," they also want to keep it out of the public eye.

I'm only mildly concerned about the "laughing people;" what really worries me are the boom boxes and frat parties.

Geez, there is no way I can tinker with the above post. You got it covered. Nice!

I sure hope that the transition from an oddity to a full-blown sport is a graceful one.

I am a bit ticked off though…
Due to the nature of my employment, I have worked at height for many years. I never gave it much thought, it was just part of the job. Then for some reason, my Son asks if he can don one of my fall arrest rigs and climb a tree in the back yard. It seemed kind of cool. So I set him up with what I thought was O.K. at the time. The rest is history. Somehow I got hooked. Over the last two years I’ve been to a couple of ITCC events and read every scrap on arboriculture & climbing I can get my hands on.

So yeah, I’m angry. I’m just getting my feet wet and here comes the crowd. Is the freedom and tranquility I have found, soon to be turned into the next bad-boy fad?

I just wish I knew about you tree-people several years earlier. You guys (gals) got one heck of a fantastic sport hidden away here!

Here's a good argument:

"Mister (or Ms) Forest Ranger, when I was hiking in here this morning I noticed a lot of deer hunters who were carrying their portable tree stands. Why are they allowed to put up those things that regularly damage trees while we can't use our ropes which cause no damage at all? And Mister (or Ms) Forest Ranger, have you checked on the number of hunters who've been injured or killed by falling out of a tree stand? It might interest you to know that the recreational treeclimbing community has never reported a serious injury or death...!"