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TOPIC: Split-tail with one carabiner?

Re:Split-tail with one carabiner? 3 years 6 months ago #135394

  • moss
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TreeTramp wrote:
No problem with the strength ratings in using one biner but that negates the main reason the split-tail was designed. By having your up rope secured to your center point with its own biner once secured with your lanyard you can un-clip the up rope and advance it to a highter TIP.

Dan's comment a while back is still relevant. To get full advantage of a split tail in a one carabiner scenario, it's going to work much better if the split tail is not anchored to the carabiner attaching the climbing rope to your harness.

That's why I advocate tying the split tail directly to an attachment point on the harness with a thimble. This won't work if you're using a hitch like a VT etc. where there are two points of attachment.
-AJ
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Re:Split-tail with one carabiner? 3 years 6 months ago #135395

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Treezybreez wrote:
Here is the split tail system I have been using for about a year and a half now. It involves tying a double fisherman/scaffold knot on the working end of the rope. I clip both my split tail and my saddle bridge through the scaffold knot. Then I cinch down the scaffold knot.

This system reduces any clanking noises that can occur. Also the carabiners do not rub together as one might think.

I must remind everyone that this is purely experimental.

Has anyone else tried this before?

Don't like the way the carabiner holding the split tail is trying to open the Scaffold Hitch up. Tail on the hitch is a bit too short (nitpicking).

Theoretically you could tie a Butterfly Knot just above the SH and clip your hitch biner into that. Unfortunately you'd still be losing some major advantages of a split tail, to advance your TIP you have to unclip the hitch biner, attach it to your bridge, then unclip your main rope to advance it.

The Hitchclimber pulley solves a lot of that problem for a harness with a bridge.
-AJ
Last Edit: 3 years 6 months ago by moss.
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Re:Split-tail with one carabiner? 3 years 6 months ago #135400

  • Treezybreez
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Thanks for posting moss, I don't mind constructive criticism.

I agree that it is not the best system, however it does a fine job at keeping the split tail closer to my body, allows for reasonable TIP advancement without untying any knots, and is very streamline.

The reason that there was a gap in the scaffold knot was because I only tied it for the picture. After climbing on it the knot cinches down. I do not think the loop needs to be tight though for the scaffold knot to be secure.

One issue I am concerned about is how this system would handle a sever shock load. What would be the weakest point of the system?

I have also been experimenting with this system and other friction hitches like the Schwabish. I just switched out the D biner for an HMS.

I can't wait to get the new hitch climber "Rapide".
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Re:Split-tail with one carabiner? 3 years 5 months ago #135403

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Here's another possible approach, it allows just one carabiner if you're using a Blake's split tail or you can add a carabiner if you're using an eye-2-eye split tail

Rock Exotica TriRig plate



Standard New Tribe harness
1. Attach the TriRig through the large opening to the delta screwlink
2. Opening #1 is down, opening #3 is up
3. For a Blake's system tie split tail directly to #1, use a plastic rope thimble, or if the plate radius/thickness is same as a carabiner tie without thimble.
4. Attach the carabiner anchoring the main rope to #3
5. To advance the rope to the next limb climber ties in with lanyard or other end of climbing rope, detaches rope from #3, pulls up slack through the split tail hitch (still attached to the harness) puts the end of the rope over the next limb and reattaches to #3.

6. For an e2e split tail, use an HMS biner through #1, put a slack tender pulley on the cabiner, adavncing the rope is the same as previously described.

Floating bridge harness
1. Install the TriRig through the large opening directly on to the harness bridge, the rest of the configuration is the same as above.

I just ordered a TriRig plate, will test further in different configurations.
-AJ
Last Edit: 3 years 5 months ago by moss.
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Re:Split-tail with one carabiner? 3 years 5 months ago #135404

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For tying the split tail directly to the TriRig I think a thimble is a good approach it would probably make it easier in that case for a New Tribe harness to attach opening #3 to the delta, opening #1 is up, the climbing rope is attached there with a carabiner. Now you have the large opening, much easier to install a plastic rope thimble there and tie your split tail on.

If you're using a second carabiner to hold an e2e split tail then a smaller opening is better as described in my previous post.

Ultimate would be a swivel with a two or three hole mini-plate on it.
-AJ
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Re:Split-tail with one carabiner? 3 years 5 months ago #135405

  • treeman
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Cool solution Greenluck. Yeah- I've never seen that setup either. Just goes to show what new ideas can come up that could be very useful.

Do you put an extra tight turn on your manual locking carabiners? Like with a plier? I have had manuals lockers open on me when I was doing tree work. I got into a lot of unusual positions. I had branch rub unlock them. Talk about a fright! That's when I switched over to double auto lockers. Well........not true. Single action spring loaded gates (Wales I think was the brand) had just come out. I switched over to them and had the same thing happen. Branch roll opened one while I was cutting. Another scare. Then they cane out with double action auto lockers. No surprises since then. Just curious. Keep an eye on them.

BTW- thanks for the permission to read your post on my upcoming podcast. I'll let you know the date. It's going to be a few months.

Peter Treeman Jenkins
Waving from a treetop,
Peter Treeman Jenkins
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Re:Split-tail with one carabiner? 3 years 5 months ago #135406

  • Treezybreez
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Hi Treeman,

I wasn't sure if part of your post was a question for me, but I will answer it anyways.

There have been a few times that my screw locking biners have become loose but most of the time they are difficult to unscrew. There was one time where I simply forgot to screw it shut and noticed it later when I was up in the canopy. That scared me into checking them often.

I once read an article (I think in a National Geographic mag)about ice climbers that only used screw gate carabiners because the autos would freeze closed. Having a screw gate allowed them to use pliers for unsticking a frozen gate. Of course that was an extreme condition and unlikely for most tree climbers.

Pretty soon I will switch to the Rock Exotica auto lockers; I have heard that they have a smooth action.
Last Edit: 3 years 2 months ago by Treezybreez.
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Re:Split-tail with one carabiner? 3 years 5 months ago #135407

  • Treezybreez
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Hey Moss,

I am interested in your rigging plate method so keep us posted after you try it out. Also some pics would help me understand the different configurations you mentioned a little better. ;)
Last Edit: 3 years 5 months ago by Treezybreez. Reason: grammer
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Re:Split-tail with one carabiner? 3 years 5 months ago #135408

  • 2chops
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I recently bought a small Petzl paw. Love it. One reason is because I'm using a New Tribe harness for my rec./ facilitating needs, the paw orients my biners in the same direction as does the D rings on my work saddle. Also, as a facilitator, the paw gives me a cleaner/ safer hookup site for my pick off straps. Better organization.

The only thing I would do different than moss, is that, with hole #1 on top and #3 on the bottom, I would tie my B-53 to the #3 hole and my biner @ the end of my rope would be connected to hole #1. This way my bridge wouldn't be crossed up on the paw. Just makes more sense to me/ personal preference.
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Re:Split-tail with one carabiner? 3 years 5 months ago #135409

  • 2chops
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Sorry moss. After re-reading your post, after I posted, I realised we're doing the same thing. For some odd reason I thought you were setting it up oppositely. Oops. Never mind.
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Re:Split-tail with one carabiner? 3 years 5 months ago #135410

  • HUK
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Treezybreez
Be cautious with the Rock Exotica biners. When I bought them I had thought that the downward action of the autolocking gate would be easier to use than the typical upwards motion...doesn't work well for me. Now I have a mix of up and down action biners which isn't ideal.

Since the gate sleeve moves downward toward the small end of the biner, it sometimes gets hampered when the rope that I have tied on shifts. The rope can prevent moving the sleeve down enough to disengage it.

It doesn't happen all that often and of course I can tie different ways to try and minimize - but it occurred often enough to be annoying for me. Keep in mind I usually use half inch rope so my knots and such are larger.

This is more troublesome with the Pirate (since it is smaller)than the O. Thinking back - it's only happened on the O once or twice.

If I had thought of this, I would only order one to try it first. I will agree though - their action is nice.
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Re:Split-tail with one carabiner? 3 years 5 months ago #135411

  • greenluck
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I just ordered my first two rock exotica biners recently. I'm thrilled by their smooth action and reasonable price. I think I'll be ordering Rock biners from now on. Sorry Petzl......

I will agree with HUK that having several biners that use different actions can be confusing and annoying; such as mixing Petzl and Rock biners. I've never had any issues with the Rock biners action causing problems but I did just start using them.

One nice thing about the Rock biners is that I believe they will work with Petzl items design for a "petzl biner only" such as the Pirana.

Those rigging plates by Rock and Petzl would work to reduce biner on biner clash. The DMM hitch climber would combine the rigging plate and a micro pulley in one hardware piece and would also help to reduce biner clash. I've had my Rapide Hitch Climber pulley for only two weeks, and I honestly don't know how I lived without it.
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Re:Split-tail with one carabiner? 3 years 5 months ago #135412

  • greenluck
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treeman wrote:
BTW- thanks for the permission to read your post on my upcoming podcast. I'll let you know the date. It's going to be a few months.

Your welcome Treeman. I hope your listeners enjoy the story.

Treezybreez thanks again for posting the photos of the 2 biners and 1 double fisherman knot. I'd love to take credit for the idea but credit is due do to you for that neat idea.
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Re:Split-tail with one carabiner? 3 years 5 months ago #135413

  • Treezybreez
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Thanks Huck and Greenluck for the biner reviews.

Huck a few of my steel rigging biners have reversed auto actions that fool me on occasion. It doesn't bother me that much though. Not being able to open the gate with 1/2" rope does sound irritating. I will probably get some of the o Exotica biners

Greenluck, glad you like the pictures. Have you tried it yet?
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